D&D 4E Will we be able to play 4E without minis?

[Brother MacLaren]

With the emphasis on mobile combat, more opponents/encounter, auras, opportunisitic attacks and generally more knocking opponents about the map, I suspect it will quite a bit more difficult to run a game without minis.

How is this going to make combat faster?

IME, movement and measurement were among the biggest time-sinks in 3.5. Starting to move, counting squares, realizing you don't have enough movement, going back to where you started, considering another option, checking range...

I can see that 4E will be a bit faster because the removal of iterative attacks, the reduction in monster abilities, and the static saves. But if there are going to be more combatants, more movement in combat, more reactive abilities, and things like auras, won't the movement and measurement take up more time?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

With the emphasis on mobile combat, more opponents/encounter, auras, opportunisitic attacks and generally more knocking opponents about the map, I suspect it will quite a bit more difficult to run a game without minis.

Personally, I'm all for it because it makes combat just that much more dynamic and tactics more important but if you don't like minis & maps you're going to have a tougher time at the table methinks...

don´t think so. Because of the dynamic combat with shifts outside of your turn and teleportation and auras, it could be easier to have non mini combats.

DM: when you approach the pit fiend, it gets hotter around you and you feel terror arising.

PC: I will shoot him from a safe distance.

DM: suddenly he vanishes and appears right next to you stinging with his tail and hitting you with his mace in a kind of frenzy.

PC: I use my fey step to vanish into the feywild.

This could lead to a lot of shuffling on the board, where it is easier not to use minis. Because of the limited range auras, you know for sure, that you can reach the enemy with a standard move, if you suffer the ill effects.

 

[Crothian]

Of course it will. WotC knows that while many people love to use minis many people also do not. Personally, I play D&D 3.4 and Saga Star Wars without the use of minis with no problems and no rules changes. I've also played both with minis and no rules changes. 4e will support both styles of play in the same easy fashion the other games have. The biggest problem I ever had with minis fwas from players who for what ever reason would not believe the game could be played with or without them.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If it's no harder to play than 3.5E without minis, I'll be happy. If it's easier, I'll be very pleased. I tend to think with all the fancy movement, it will actually be easier, if you're not extremely uptight about getting everything precisely correct, because it sounds like characters will get around quicker. Of course, if you are extremely uptight about it, you're probably playing with minis anyway.

In 3.5E when it gets complicated I just draw the locations for everyone on a piece of paper and keep track that way. Has yet to be a problem.

 

[AZRogue]

I'm glad that some people were able to play 3.5 without minis and not have any problems. As I said, I never tried, it just became one of those things that we (my group) wished we had tried after the fact. It seemed like it would be complicated, to tell the truth. I'm relieved to know that some who tried didn't find it so.

I think the mobility of 4E will make it a bit easier, as some have said, especially if you reduce the number of attacks of opportunities. I'm not one of those DMs that worries about a few feet here and there. I tend to keep general track (well, I did before) on scratch paper and rough out the rest depending on how the encounter is flowing.

Thanks for all the constructive replies.

 

[Rpgraccoon]

If it's no harder to play than 3.5E without minis, I'll be happy. If it's easier, I'll be very pleased. I tend to think with all the fancy movement, it will actually be easier, if you're not extremely uptight about getting everything precisely correct, because it sounds like characters will get around quicker. Of course, if you are extremely uptight about it, you're probably playing with minis anyway.

In 3.5E when it gets complicated I just draw the locations for everyone on a piece of paper and keep track that way. Has yet to be a problem.

During an online game combat was done that way on a game I played. It worked quite well actually.

I like the tiles approach I've seen some companies have done. Painted tiles of characters and monsters seems cool.

 

[Dausuul]

I also have both played and run 3.X without minis, and it's really not as hard as you'd think. It does require that the players trust the DM to fairly assess what they can and can't do, and it requires the DM to be able to come up with reasonable-sounding answers on the fly.

However, if you've got those, it speeds up combat something fierce. With minis, things grind to a halt every time the wizard goes to throw a fireball, as he counts off squares to see how many of the enemy he can nail without hitting his allies. Without minis, the wizard just asks, "How many of them can I hit with a fireball?" and the DM replies, "Hmm... I'd say two of them, or three if you're willing to catch the fighter in the blast." And things move right along.

 

[AZRogue]

However, if you've got those, it speeds up combat something fierce. With minis, things grind to a halt every time the wizard goes to throw a fireball, as he counts off squares to see how many of the enemy he can nail without hitting his allies. Without minis, the wizard just asks, "How many of them can I hit with a fireball?" and the DM replies, "Hmm... I'd say two of them, or three if you're willing to catch the fighter in the blast." And things move right along.

Ah, just imagining that brought a tear to my eye. Life would have been much easier just moving along that way.

 

[Echohawk]

I'm glad that some people were able to play 3.5 without minis and not have any problems. As I said, I never tried, it just became one of those things that we (my group) wished we had tried after the fact. It seemed like it would be complicated, to tell the truth. I'm relieved to know that some who tried didn't find it so.

In the 3.5 campaign I am currently running, we usually use minis for about 3/4 of the combats. But I quite deliberately don't use them for some encounters, and occasionally for entire game sessions. I find that this gives those encounters/games a different flavour. They feel slightly faster paced and a little more chaotic, and this variation seems to work well. We never have any trouble playing through those games without minis.