Will you be purchasing PDFs from DriveThruRPG?

[Tsyr]

Now that is a bad analogy. Linex isn't used by the vast majority of PC users out there. Not too many busiensses would make Linex-only products.

It's not an analogy. It's a hypothetical situation.

 

[Flyspeck23]

A Linux user buying something at DriveThru might be in for some surprise after purchase...

Is it stated anywhere on DriveThru that their PDFs can't be used if your OS is Linux?

 

[BryonD]

I've seen a lot of people post that. Does anyone have hard data to support that?

I imagine there isn't any hard data to support either side.

You're kidding right? It has been covered how to bypass the DRM many times.
Can I conclude that your postition so far has been based on a refusal to accept this reality?

 

[johnsemlak]

That fact doesn't represent proof it insn't ineffective. You'll have to do better to convince me.

DRM's effectiveness does indeed seem shaky. But a lot of people hinge their arguement it's ineffectiveness as a proven fact. I havne't seen that.

You're kidding right? It has been covered how to bypass the DRM many times.

 

[Flyspeck23]

DRM's effectiveness does indeed seem shaky. But a lot of people hinge their arguement it's ineffectiveness as a proven fact. I havne't seen that.

And you won't see that. Who'd collect such data, and how?

But seeing that a cracked version is superior in every way to the DRM version, wouldn't it stand to reason that this will in fact have an influence on piracy - but not a good one?

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Your so-called "rights" end when it starts to damage the folks producing the thing.

Actually, the point at which the consumer's rights end and the publisher's rights begin is a hotly debated topic. One example is the Right of First Sale, which copyright law protects, but which has been superceded by numerous EULA's and DRM schemes. The difference of opinion on where to draw the line is the source of much of the passion we see on this subject.

Some people steal things, and it is foolish to say that the people producing those things shouldn't try to prevent that theft.

Sure they can, with two caveats: their methods must be legal (anyone remember when the RIAA attempted to get a bill passed in Congress allowing them to trash other people's computers if they were suspected of file sharing?), and they must not alienate too many customers. If every time I left a store, employees insisted on patting me down for stolen items, would you expect me to continue doing business with them? Sure, it's an extreme example, but it illustrates my point - for many potential customers, DRM is just as unacceptable.

 

[The Sigil]

I've seen a lot of people post that. Does anyone have hard data to support that?

I imagine there isn't any hard data to support either side.

*sighs* There is in fact hard data that DRM does nothing to improve the security of PDFs.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/PDFsecurity.pdf

Here, in fact, is an explanation (for the technically adept) of precisely WHERE the flaw lies and HOW it can be exploited.

http://seclists.org/lists/fulldisclosure/2003/Jul/0210.html

I could cite other examples, and numerous people have said that they will show the vendors exactly how it's done (in X minutes or Y clicks) - presumably if the vendor agrees not to prosecute first. I happen to know how it could be done, but seeing as how I'm in the US, and just telling you about or demonstrating how it's done could get me arrested under the DMCA as a felon ( http://www.freesklyarov.org/ ) I - and many others - choose not to.

That DRM is ineffective is an indisputable point of fact. Numerous sources document it. If you want to argue other points, you can - but just because you personally haven't seen it done doesn't mean it can't easily be done.

--The Sigil

 

[Tsyr]

If only that second document was exposing the ONLY vulnerability of DRM. It's not. It's just exposing one. There are others.

Don't get me wrong. As soon as a variety of copy protection develops which isn't intrusive and doesn't cripple the document for legitmate uses and users, I'll be all for it. I'm conceptually all for protecting the IP of another person. But this is not the way to do it.

 

[johnsemlak]

Sigil, I've been convinced how easy it is to crack PDFs. That's not what I'm asking.

I asked if their was statistical data demonstrating that DRM-protected files get traded illegally as much as others.

I honestly think that it probably is ineffective for the most part. But some statistics would be useful evidence.

 

[Tsyr]

That fact doesn't represent proof it insn't ineffective. You'll have to do better to convince me.

DRM's effectiveness does indeed seem shaky. But a lot of people hinge their arguement it's ineffectiveness as a proven fact. I havne't seen that.

Look, it doesn't need proof in this one instance.

Have such things ever worked?

It doesn't work for music. Ways around them are normally found the first day the new protection scheme is released.

It doesn't work for movies. Same deal.

It has never worked for PC games and software. Again, most commonly the day it comes out. Sometimes before, believe it or not.

It hasn't even worked for the supposedly 'closed' platform of gaming consoles. It normally takes a *little* longer there, a few weeks for the initial results to start turning up, but even there it doesn't work.

A million schemes have been tried. A million schemes have been broken.

This one is flimsier than most. This one is the spit to the other method's bailing twine.

1+2 is looking like it's going to equal 3.