Winning Races: Dwarves

[Prestidigitalis]

It's not quite that extreme though, for example all three Superior NAD feats have a prerequisite of 15 in one of the two relevant stats each.

Yes, but I'm not talking about prerequisites generally, I'm talking about RACIAL prerequisites. As I said, I like the idea that "race matters". If dwarven stamina, etc., are available to every race, then race becomes even less salient relative to class.

I have never had any objections to the feats you are talking about.

 

[tyrlaan]

Yes, but I'm not talking about prerequisites generally, I'm talking about RACIAL prerequisites. As I said, I like the idea that "race matters". If dwarven stamina, etc., are available to every race, then race becomes even less salient relative to class.

Agreed. And aside from the fact that I think getting 2 second winds per combat was a poorly thought out feat, this is the primary reason I don't really like the article. If it's about dwarves, why are 80+% of the feats not dwarf specific?

I'm fine with the feats presented being available to all, but then I don't think this should have been a Winning Races: Dwarves article.

 

[LightPhoenix]

If it's about dwarves, why are 80+% of the feats not dwarf specific?

I'm fine with the feats presented being available to all, but then I don't think this should have been a Winning Races: Dwarves article.

The issue I have with racial prerequisites on most feats is that in most cases the feats can be re-flavored to fit your race. For example, for Solid Footing, Goliaths already have the stone thing going on, plus their large size allows them to step over obstacles easily. Halflings scamper over the debris using their natural dexterity to tumble and move. Humans train in difficult footwork, capitalizing on their natural adaptability to ignore what might trip up others.

In my opinion, the only time racial prerequisites should be used is when a feat absolutely depends on a class feature. For example, a feat that interacts with Elven Accuracy should have a pre-requisite of Elf. Otherwise, it's almost always pointless, because you can always play the re-flavor (or backstory) game.

 

[kaomera]

Perhaps, but what if I DON'T WANT to play a battlemind or a warthinker or a swordsoul or whatever other class they come up with next. I want to play a fighter, which benefits from his STR bonus. Before, I put my highest stat in STR and CON anyway. Now I'll do the same, and my STR will be 2 higher.

Alternately, because you can make a perfectly good Dwarf Fighter with the ability scores you already would have had, you can keep your 16 (or 18, or whatever) Str, count on DWP and other Dwarven bonuses to keep you top-of-class for Fighter, and have 7 more points to buy up other ability scores!

 

[tyrlaan]

The issue I have with racial prerequisites on most feats is that in most cases the feats can be re-flavored to fit your race. For example, for Solid Footing, Goliaths already have the stone thing going on, plus their large size allows them to step over obstacles easily. Halflings scamper over the debris using their natural dexterity to tumble and move. Humans train in difficult footwork, capitalizing on their natural adaptability to ignore what might trip up others.

In my opinion, the only time racial prerequisites should be used is when a feat absolutely depends on a class feature. For example, a feat that interacts with Elven Accuracy should have a pre-requisite of Elf. Otherwise, it's almost always pointless, because you can always play the re-flavor (or backstory) game.

I definitely see what you're saying; it's a pretty simple task to rationalize reflavoring a feat to work with another race. However, a feat with a racial prereq helps to establish deeper distinctive qualities for a that race, which is something I think brings a lot to the game.

On the flip side, a feat with a racial prereq doesn't stop you from reflavoring. All you do is reflavor it and get the OK from your DM and you're done. And I think that's where the reflavoring should stay, at the discretion of the DM. Releasing a feat without racial prereqs (when it's billed as a racial feat that is) eliminates this step and eliminates the opportunity to build mechanical distinction for the races.

I guess what I'm saying is I think we can both have our cake as long as its clear that reflavoring can happen, with DM approval.

 

[zoroaster100]

I really like that they are mostly eliminating feat prerequisites. Yes, I can reflavor one of the old racial feats, but then I have to wonder if the prerequisite was put in for some game balance reason I'm overlooking. I'd rather they ONLY put prerequisites on feats if it is required for game balance or because it only works with a certain racial or class feature, not for flavor reasons. On the other hand, I really hope they take a closer look when publishing new feats in Dragon. If feats are useable by everyone, they can do more damage to the game if they are sorely under or over powered. With the new organization for feats it should be more obvious when someone is creating a new feat whether it is filling a role already filled by an existing feat, so duplicative, overpowered or underpowered feats should be easier to avoid with a little care.

 

[Mengu]

This is going to sound blasphemous to some, but I don't care about flavor or fluff, I just want the bare bones mechanics. I can skin my character around that however I want. There are many things wrong with the feats in this article, but a lack of the "dwarf" prerequisite is not one of them. A fault of many earlier articles was that they were entirely too specific to be of use to a large audience. I really don't want to get a set of feats that help Shifter Avengers who use a falchion at midnight when there is a full moon. It may be flavorful, but it's not helpful.

This article actually would get major kudos from me for catering to a greater audience despite being a racial article, were it not for all the other shortcomings in the crunch.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

A fault of many earlier articles was that they were entirely too specific to be of use to a large audience. I really don't want to get a set of feats that help Shifter Avengers who use a falchion at midnight when there is a full moon. It may be flavorful, but it's not helpful.

But presumably feats for which the only restriction is racial don't bother you too much?

 

[Mengu]

But presumably feats for which the only restriction is racial don't bother you too much?

No, not too much, though I do prefer wider usability. A feat that has a prerequisite of "Fey Origin" or "Immortal Origin" would get greater love from me than a feat with a prerequisite of Gnome or Shardmind.

 

[TheWriterFantastic™]

re: Resolute Stamina and Dwarven Resilience

I'm surprised no one caught this:
As per HotFL (and maybe PH 1), Dwarven Resilience is technically an encounter power that allows character to activate second wind as part of the power, which is a minor action to use. Because that's technically a encounter power, the additional second wind would have to be activated on its own as normal, using a standard action.