Winter IrondDM (Winner)!
incognito
First Post
Round 2, set 2
Round 2, set 2
Mythago vs. seasong.
Well, folks, I have to say, I’m disappointed. Both submissions, though containing strengths, were ultimately weak. The judging was difficult, but only because both sides were riddled with holes.
The bummer is mythago starts SO well. The errant brother getting shanghaied – I liked that a lot! Then, trying to liberate a few coins from his strict, Cuthbert worshiping brother –who later sends him off to his death is indeed an unfortunate coincidence. The concept of a Gaol Island is appealing to me in this fantasy setting, and the brother getting killed by the Contemplative Kraken (who could’ve been a fascinating NPC, had mythago detailed him a bit more), never arriving left me hoping we’d see the Kraken’s return later on in the story. The timeline, was consistent, and well thought out…
Up until “The Story” that is. 12th Level Wizard Medusa, Lich? WHAT?!? Completely tangential to the back-story, and a horrifying misuse of an encounter. This adventure was set up for characters whose maximum level is 14 –so MAYBE they could handle a CR17 creature… Thukrasios (and by the way, I’m pretty sure all Medusae are female, not male) is CR 21 by my count and an even higher EL, because mythago specifically states he has a fortress, guards, AND he has time to prepare himself for battle. It would be an unfortunate coincidence if the Lich even noticed the PCs passing through, let alone saw them as a threat.
So, what really happens is that the PCs are all killed or retreat back to Kingsport, and there we meet the Blackguard that Calistan, the eldest son, has become – a neat idea that was. Too bad it’s not incorporated into the story at all, except maybe in a later adventure. Then adventures over. Again: What?!
Ingredient-wise: I like the unfortunate coincidence, this starts a chain of poop which drives the story forward. Great use of the ingredient. I like the Kraken too – too bad he was strictly a single use plot device. He needs incorporation. By now even Eric’s grandmother should know that you don’t tack on ingredients. You just don’t do it. The mirror is exactly the same, and worse, it wasn’t even mentioned in the back-story. Big oversight. The serene battlefield was meant as a clue to the type of foes the PCs would face, and the answer to the riddle of what happened to the King’s armed delegation. I actually liked this one – too bad it was spoiled by the off-CR opponent. Hated the deflect arrows use, “protection from arrows” does NOT deflect arrows. “Windwall” does though – see I’m not totally unreasonable
Finally, though the NPC Calistan was a very interesting, mythago did squat with him, rendering him usless. To me, the obvious thing to do is have The Blackguard be the one who sacked the city, with a troop of convicts from the Gaol island.
On to seasong.
Seasong is all set-up, little or no adventure. The back-story is quite good, on par with mythago’s but the the punch line is brief, and it’s a sucker punch. It’s also riddled odd expectations, and mechanics problems, and major missing plot info. Too ambitions maybe? I can’t believe it’s SEAsong we’re talking about here! Here are few highlights.
mechaincs: somehow there is a “fiend” (demon or devil) that is going to fly around, deflecting arrows, and somehow dispel multiple attempts at communication and flying from TWO ships, each with a contingent of guards, including spell casters. Err – how is this exactly? How does he spot a scry attempt when he is flying overhead? This fiend was brilliant enough to plan for A CENTURY to set up this little shindig, and yet this is his best plan?
Also, why is the CR 12 Kraken buddy, buddy with the CR 10 Fiend. What – the fiend speaks Aquan? More importantly, it’s VERY ambitious of seasong to assume the PCs will give the mirror to the kraken when he has stated EXPLICITY, this is a city treasure the PCs are trying to protect – throwing it to some sea beastie is the last thing they’d do. It sets the PCs up for failure, which I’m against.
And what about the other cities ships and national treasures? We get zero information and back-story about them, an oversight, I think - and that’s only because seasong's story is SO focused on the politics, and precautions, and the trust between the two cities.
Seasong alludes to the unfortunate coincidence quite a few times in his submission, yet it never really materializes. The fiends plot is NOT going to look coincidental, by seasongs own admission. It is going to look like a deliberate act of war by one city on the other. And it is unfortunate, but NOT coincidental at all, that it was the field who suggested the 'two boats' tactic. The one place the ingredient would occur, is if we use the PCs as part of Uuhef’s crew – in seasong’s “alternatives” section. Oh, and by a 'fortunate coincidence', it is also the one situation in which the PCs might actually toss the mirror.
I should add, I loved the sentence “. In this case, have the adventurers that come on board [should] be incompetent louts who couldn't protect a pickle jar.” Loved it, seasong. I did like the serene, aquatic battle field, a decent touch to an otherwise flawed submission.
Sooo, my “least poor” judgement goes to Seasong. Why? Well, at least he has a single, semi-viable combat. Tough, but at least possible! Mythago didn’t even give us that.
I would like lengthy (and possibly apologetic) exposition, please.
Round 2, set 2
Mythago vs. seasong.
Well, folks, I have to say, I’m disappointed. Both submissions, though containing strengths, were ultimately weak. The judging was difficult, but only because both sides were riddled with holes.
The bummer is mythago starts SO well. The errant brother getting shanghaied – I liked that a lot! Then, trying to liberate a few coins from his strict, Cuthbert worshiping brother –who later sends him off to his death is indeed an unfortunate coincidence. The concept of a Gaol Island is appealing to me in this fantasy setting, and the brother getting killed by the Contemplative Kraken (who could’ve been a fascinating NPC, had mythago detailed him a bit more), never arriving left me hoping we’d see the Kraken’s return later on in the story. The timeline, was consistent, and well thought out…
Up until “The Story” that is. 12th Level Wizard Medusa, Lich? WHAT?!? Completely tangential to the back-story, and a horrifying misuse of an encounter. This adventure was set up for characters whose maximum level is 14 –so MAYBE they could handle a CR17 creature… Thukrasios (and by the way, I’m pretty sure all Medusae are female, not male) is CR 21 by my count and an even higher EL, because mythago specifically states he has a fortress, guards, AND he has time to prepare himself for battle. It would be an unfortunate coincidence if the Lich even noticed the PCs passing through, let alone saw them as a threat.
So, what really happens is that the PCs are all killed or retreat back to Kingsport, and there we meet the Blackguard that Calistan, the eldest son, has become – a neat idea that was. Too bad it’s not incorporated into the story at all, except maybe in a later adventure. Then adventures over. Again: What?!
Ingredient-wise: I like the unfortunate coincidence, this starts a chain of poop which drives the story forward. Great use of the ingredient. I like the Kraken too – too bad he was strictly a single use plot device. He needs incorporation. By now even Eric’s grandmother should know that you don’t tack on ingredients. You just don’t do it. The mirror is exactly the same, and worse, it wasn’t even mentioned in the back-story. Big oversight. The serene battlefield was meant as a clue to the type of foes the PCs would face, and the answer to the riddle of what happened to the King’s armed delegation. I actually liked this one – too bad it was spoiled by the off-CR opponent. Hated the deflect arrows use, “protection from arrows” does NOT deflect arrows. “Windwall” does though – see I’m not totally unreasonable
Finally, though the NPC Calistan was a very interesting, mythago did squat with him, rendering him usless. To me, the obvious thing to do is have The Blackguard be the one who sacked the city, with a troop of convicts from the Gaol island. On to seasong.
Seasong is all set-up, little or no adventure. The back-story is quite good, on par with mythago’s but the the punch line is brief, and it’s a sucker punch. It’s also riddled odd expectations, and mechanics problems, and major missing plot info. Too ambitions maybe? I can’t believe it’s SEAsong we’re talking about here! Here are few highlights.
mechaincs: somehow there is a “fiend” (demon or devil) that is going to fly around, deflecting arrows, and somehow dispel multiple attempts at communication and flying from TWO ships, each with a contingent of guards, including spell casters. Err – how is this exactly? How does he spot a scry attempt when he is flying overhead? This fiend was brilliant enough to plan for A CENTURY to set up this little shindig, and yet this is his best plan?
Also, why is the CR 12 Kraken buddy, buddy with the CR 10 Fiend. What – the fiend speaks Aquan? More importantly, it’s VERY ambitious of seasong to assume the PCs will give the mirror to the kraken when he has stated EXPLICITY, this is a city treasure the PCs are trying to protect – throwing it to some sea beastie is the last thing they’d do. It sets the PCs up for failure, which I’m against.
And what about the other cities ships and national treasures? We get zero information and back-story about them, an oversight, I think - and that’s only because seasong's story is SO focused on the politics, and precautions, and the trust between the two cities.
Seasong alludes to the unfortunate coincidence quite a few times in his submission, yet it never really materializes. The fiends plot is NOT going to look coincidental, by seasongs own admission. It is going to look like a deliberate act of war by one city on the other. And it is unfortunate, but NOT coincidental at all, that it was the field who suggested the 'two boats' tactic. The one place the ingredient would occur, is if we use the PCs as part of Uuhef’s crew – in seasong’s “alternatives” section. Oh, and by a 'fortunate coincidence', it is also the one situation in which the PCs might actually toss the mirror.
I should add, I loved the sentence “. In this case, have the adventurers that come on board [should] be incompetent louts who couldn't protect a pickle jar.” Loved it, seasong. I did like the serene, aquatic battle field, a decent touch to an otherwise flawed submission.
Sooo, my “least poor” judgement goes to Seasong. Why? Well, at least he has a single, semi-viable combat. Tough, but at least possible! Mythago didn’t even give us that.
I would like lengthy (and possibly apologetic) exposition, please.
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seasong
First Post
So, here's my apology: I apologize. I sucked on this one. I sucked harder than incognito said - if I was planning a game session and this was what I'd come up with by the deadline, I would have cancelled.
But I had to submit something, and at the deadline, that's what I had... and I would rather get ripped up than quit just because I had a bad day.
I feel rotten about this win, too, because I think mythago should have won. His kraken wasn't terribly detailed, but I think that's at least partly because he was trying to keep his word count down. And while both entries were incomplete, mythago's wouldn't require a complete rewrite to make it good.
I would like to make one point: for its length, it's good. I hate to say it, but for the level of detail that our fair and honest judge demands on NPCs, background, and motivation, I am not going to be able to keep it under 2,000 words. This one was an experiment, and I think it failed - the competitors have to play to the judge, and the judge likes detail.
Now, let's get down to the brass tacks I'm sitting on.
1. I should have simply written this as an extension of the last one. Assume that the PCs are on Uuhef's boat, and write up hooks for various reasons why Uuhef's crew would be interested in this job. If I treated it as a module, in fact, I could have drawn the fiend into the earlier scenario, as being involved in the thieves' guild that was trying to frame Johannsen. I would have, but I ran out of time when it occurred to me this morning and I had to leave it as an alternate.
2. Summary, summary, summary! ARGH!
3. The structure was weak. I built this around a single encounter, and while that may be good for some GMs, I prefer to stage multiple encounters in a scenario - I'm not sure why I went the opposite way with this one.
4. Using the mirror on the kraken isn't obvious. It's a last ditch, desperate measure in a fight where there are few items on hand, and the history of the item will come back up. I should have made this more obvious (perhaps giving some flavor text the GM could read to the PCs that would seed the idea in their heads).
5. I really should have had a list of "ways this could go" and the politics they would lead to. The fiend could become friend or foe, as could the cities, for example. I've been trying, with these IronDMs, to get better at writing scenarios for other people's use, and that means explaining more than I'm accustomed to.
6. I should have explained this more: why is the kraken helping him? Because he has arranged for an easy meal for it! Simple as that, really - no one is expecting a kraken to happen by.
A defense in my favor:
I stand by not detailing the fiend. However, I should have explained his methods for preventing communication better. I tend to think of haste, counterspelling and dispel magic as almost standard villain affairs, and a few preparatory spells (anti-divination magics placed in the right areas) as good add-ons. In practice, he's unlikely to have to stop more than one or two attempts at a time. And as for why he wouldn't be joining the fight... well, that's WHY he enlisted the aid of the kraken.
But I had to submit something, and at the deadline, that's what I had... and I would rather get ripped up than quit just because I had a bad day.
I feel rotten about this win, too, because I think mythago should have won. His kraken wasn't terribly detailed, but I think that's at least partly because he was trying to keep his word count down. And while both entries were incomplete, mythago's wouldn't require a complete rewrite to make it good.
I would like to make one point: for its length, it's good. I hate to say it, but for the level of detail that our fair and honest judge demands on NPCs, background, and motivation, I am not going to be able to keep it under 2,000 words. This one was an experiment, and I think it failed - the competitors have to play to the judge, and the judge likes detail.
Now, let's get down to the brass tacks I'm sitting on.
1. I should have simply written this as an extension of the last one. Assume that the PCs are on Uuhef's boat, and write up hooks for various reasons why Uuhef's crew would be interested in this job. If I treated it as a module, in fact, I could have drawn the fiend into the earlier scenario, as being involved in the thieves' guild that was trying to frame Johannsen. I would have, but I ran out of time when it occurred to me this morning and I had to leave it as an alternate.
2. Summary, summary, summary! ARGH!
3. The structure was weak. I built this around a single encounter, and while that may be good for some GMs, I prefer to stage multiple encounters in a scenario - I'm not sure why I went the opposite way with this one.
4. Using the mirror on the kraken isn't obvious. It's a last ditch, desperate measure in a fight where there are few items on hand, and the history of the item will come back up. I should have made this more obvious (perhaps giving some flavor text the GM could read to the PCs that would seed the idea in their heads).
5. I really should have had a list of "ways this could go" and the politics they would lead to. The fiend could become friend or foe, as could the cities, for example. I've been trying, with these IronDMs, to get better at writing scenarios for other people's use, and that means explaining more than I'm accustomed to.
6. I should have explained this more: why is the kraken helping him? Because he has arranged for an easy meal for it! Simple as that, really - no one is expecting a kraken to happen by.
A defense in my favor:
I stand by not detailing the fiend. However, I should have explained his methods for preventing communication better. I tend to think of haste, counterspelling and dispel magic as almost standard villain affairs, and a few preparatory spells (anti-divination magics placed in the right areas) as good add-ons. In practice, he's unlikely to have to stop more than one or two attempts at a time. And as for why he wouldn't be joining the fight... well, that's WHY he enlisted the aid of the kraken.
incognito
First Post
Seasong: I may like detail, but mythago could won this one with the exact same wordcount. Mythago has the knack for brevity. If you continue to doubt, go back and read Vaxalon's submisisons. He has a similar talent.
All my contestents: Keep in mind I have to critisize **something.** Many times it a lack of detail, because posters include an incredible amount in some areas, and forget to include any on an ingredient!
I still can't get over the gross CR 21 issue. Whoa!
All my contestents: Keep in mind I have to critisize **something.** Many times it a lack of detail, because posters include an incredible amount in some areas, and forget to include any on an ingredient!
I still can't get over the gross CR 21 issue. Whoa!
seasong
First Post
Brevity is the soul of wit, and of wit I've none.
Personally, if you think a submission is overly long and want to encourage shorter ones, instead of commenting "it's long" and then heaping praise on the details, perhaps you could rip on "details that are unnecessary"? I'd certainly appreciate it for my submissions.
Personally, if you think a submission is overly long and want to encourage shorter ones, instead of commenting "it's long" and then heaping praise on the details, perhaps you could rip on "details that are unnecessary"? I'd certainly appreciate it for my submissions
.
Good thing I didn't do my level 1-3 version of the kraken encounter, then. Don't think I didn't consider it.
Quickbeam
Explorer
Congrats to seasong. I bet you're feeling every bit as fortunate to have advanced, as I did against Nifft!!
mythago, I pretty much agree with Incognito's judgment on this one, except that I'm not sure the high CR (nigh impossible) encounter should have cost you the battle. As noted in the critique, you do have the gift of brevity -- or perhaps I should say clearly succinct descriptiveness. Hopefully you'll return for the next tournament to further stake your claim as a formidable foe!
So, any thoughts on the timing of the Final Round? I'm good to go for a starting time tomorrow (whenever); Saturday (until 5pm); not at all on Sunday; and back to whenever on Monday.
mythago, I pretty much agree with Incognito's judgment on this one, except that I'm not sure the high CR (nigh impossible) encounter should have cost you the battle. As noted in the critique, you do have the gift of brevity -- or perhaps I should say clearly succinct descriptiveness. Hopefully you'll return for the next tournament to further stake your claim as a formidable foe!
So, any thoughts on the timing of the Final Round? I'm good to go for a starting time tomorrow (whenever); Saturday (until 5pm); not at all on Sunday; and back to whenever on Monday.
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