Wis & Secondary Stats

[Irda Ranger]

Before they start making the mental stats important for everyone they need to sort out or change what they represent. Cha and Wis especially are muddled. If I want to be a powerful 'mental/natural' spellcaster type -read Sorcerer- why can't I be obnoxious? All mental/naturally inherited power users could talk the pants of the opposite sex? And all mentally tough people are wise and have great physical perceptions? And the Int/Wis absent-minded professor analogy is pathetic.
The physical attributes Str/Dex/Con has good, logical separation and can be easily believed and used. But Int/Wis/Cha are a muddle. It needs to be something like:
1. 'Ability to learn' stat. (for skill bonus and NPC intelligence, IMO a PCs int and wisdom is the players own)
2. 'Mental strength/toughness/power' stat
3. 'Perception' stat
4. 'charming sweet-talker' stat
IMO three stats don't cut it and, if we have to have 3 stats, then differentiate them better

Eh, no. I can see where you're coming from, but there's no need to go to four mental stats. I think one change might clear it up for you: make the CHR modify your Will save. That way CHR is always "personality projection" and WIS is always "perception/intuition."

C&C actually had a pretty good system by having a saving throw category for each stat. You resisted Charms with CHR (rejecting their personality for your) and resisted Illusions with WIS (perception). I liked it alot, and may implement something like it in 4E (I do not expect them to do this).

 

[Irda Ranger]

>>>Anyone have any good suggestions on other areas where 4E should incorporate secondary stats into class abilities?<<<

One neat thing about Tome of Battle was that the different melee classes relied on mental stats in different ways (the Warblade's DEX and INT stacked for AC; he fought "smart"). Also, different powers relied on different stats (White Raven used CHR a lot). Because you could choose your powers, you could play to your strengths.

 

[Jackelope King]

Honestly, considering that perception skills (spot/listen) are probably among the most important in the game (being able to avoid being caught flat-footed / grant your enemy combat advantage), I really think it would be balanced to let Charisma modify Will and leave Wisdom to modify Perception (and considering how opposed checks are rumored to operate, your Spot/Listen/Notice/Perception/Whatever will almost be a de facto "Defense" against people sneaking up on you).

 

[mach1.9pants]

Eh, no. I can see where you're coming from, but there's no need to go to four mental stats. I think one change might clear it up for you: make the CHR modify your Will save. That way CHR is always "personality projection" and WIS is always "perception/intuition."

Sounds good to me, I am happy with 3; just convince WotC!

 

[FadedC]

Before they start making the mental stats important for everyone they need to sort out or change what they represent. Cha and Wis especially are muddled. If I want to be a powerful 'mental/natural' spellcaster type -read Sorcerer- why can't I be obnoxious?

I'd say that you can be obnoxious. Charisma represents force of personality and I know some really persuasive people with really strong persoinalities who can be totally obnoxious. What you can't be is reserved, meek and afraid to talk.

 

[Destil]

I think that all the mental attributes will be used for all classes.

Intelligence: Bonus skill points.
Wisdom: Powers/Combat Abilities known.
Charisma: Extra uses of Powers/Combat Abilities.

So, basically, if you want to play a character without any special powers, use all your mental stats as dump stats and you're set.

-TRRW

Then we just need to make Str useful to non melee types

(And no, carrying capacity doesn't count, since you just have your high str tank lug around your extra junk. I'm talking in line with the defense / hit point bonuses from Con & Dex).

 

[Gloombunny]

It may not be entirely sensible that all sorcerers are sexy rockstars, but it is really cool that way. IMO.