Dandu
First Post
On the contrary, it holds even more strongly; a first level cleric gets Shield, whereas a fifth level cleric gets Dispel Magic. As well as enough hit points to avoid dying from a good blow to the head.
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Wish
- Thread starter robotech_elder
- Start date
On the contrary, it holds even more strongly; a first level cleric gets Shield, whereas a fifth level cleric gets Dispel Magic. As well as enough hit points to avoid dying from a good blow to the head.
RedShirtNo5.1
Explorer
I generally don't like twisting wishes; my preference is just to have the effect fail if it exceeds the power of the spell. But someone who wishes for multiple wishes deserves what they get.
Good point about the hit points.
nijineko
Explorer
i offer the most recent official advice i can find: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050902a
i have always taken a monkey's paw view on overstepping a wish's limits. however, i am probably a product of my dms, who would gleefully twist and warp any and every incautious wish. sort of a long standing tradition.
personally, (and despite my gleeful encouragement of wapring and twisting incautious wishes) i actually take the following stances in my real game play:
i try to take into account the actual degree of experience in-game of the player in question. sometimes the character.
after that, i see how the wish is worded, and if it falls within the guidelines given (since i play 3.x, i use those guidelines).
incautiously worded wishes might be quirky, but still what is asked for, if it is within the guidelines.
when they step outside of the rules, i look at the plot. is there anything i can do to the wish that would move the plot forward? are there extenuating circumstances? is there something i could do that would be really funny/memorable/cool? are they just trying to get away with something?
and i go from there.
i have always taken a monkey's paw view on overstepping a wish's limits. however, i am probably a product of my dms, who would gleefully twist and warp any and every incautious wish. sort of a long standing tradition.
personally, (and despite my gleeful encouragement of wapring and twisting incautious wishes) i actually take the following stances in my real game play:
i try to take into account the actual degree of experience in-game of the player in question. sometimes the character.
after that, i see how the wish is worded, and if it falls within the guidelines given (since i play 3.x, i use those guidelines).
incautiously worded wishes might be quirky, but still what is asked for, if it is within the guidelines.
when they step outside of the rules, i look at the plot. is there anything i can do to the wish that would move the plot forward? are there extenuating circumstances? is there something i could do that would be really funny/memorable/cool? are they just trying to get away with something?
and i go from there.
A nymph with Druid levels does progress the spell-casting, but all other abilities are the same as a level 1 Druid. Look at it as if it was a Druid with levels in a prestige class that progresses spellcasting.
That's where Level Adjustment comes into play, even a level 1 half-celestial isn't balanced with a level 4 human, a level 1 half-dragon would be though.
Also, if you're a beginning DM you probably should have only allowed simple races, Core Rulebook only, with maybe a few other humanoids like Goblin, Kobold or Orc if your players feel like playing something monstrous.
Don't forget that you shouldn't judge his first wish on the basis of the intention of the 3 wishes he uses for it.
Judge every wish based on that wish alone.
So when he wishes for a ring of three wishes, don't give him nymph powers instead, since that isn't a perversion of the wish, it's just something completely different.
Simple answers for the ring wish are this:
- Be teleported to the current owner of the ring (if you don't want to kill the player, then maybe this is simple a magic shop's stock room, 'causing him to get arrested.)
- Be granted a (partially) used up ring. Maybe it has one charge so the player hasn't wasted his wish.
- Be granted a cursed version of the ring
- Each wish from this ring is automatically perverted even if it would fall within the limits of the spell.
- The ring doesn't grant wishes at all, but it makes the wearing think it does.
- The wishes are used up unintentionally whenever the player even thinks about something ever so slightly, the player is hungry and thinks about his favorite meal which then appears before him as one charge is used up. You could allow the player to realise this after 2 charges is used up so he can still retry his final wish he was supposed to be allowed.
- Some combination of the above.
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
As Mr. Welch teaches us:
97. My one wish cannot be 'I wish everything on this piece of paper was true'
and
568. My first wish cannot be "I wish you grant all my wishes to the spirit and letter of the wish'
With that being said, I cannot fathom how your scout is going to activate the scroll. UMD isn't a class skill for scouts and even with cross-class ranks its going to be difficult. If the scout somehow pulls it off, I'd be surprised and a little suspicious. This goes for all the other scrolls your player wants.
As its been said often enough here, wishing for more wishes is typically considered a no go. But lets say he somehow gets his wish to grant him a ring of three wishes. There are a lot of things to do here.
First, he gets transported to the ring. He only need reach out and grab it. Pay no attention to the large, angry demon/dragon/wizard glaring at you from behind.
Second, he gets the item but it requires some sort of sacrifice to work. You get a wish but you have to gain a permanent negative level when you use it. Or if they ever tell someone what their wish was, it is immediately undone.
Third, the lore for a nymph is that they defend a location they consider sacred. Asking to gain all the abilities of a nymph would, in my opinion, give the player this too. Each day that your scout doesn't spend trying to get to their sacred location (s)he gets hit with the penalties from geas. Also, even if your scout gains the spell casting, make sure they have the appropriate wisdom score to cast!
97. My one wish cannot be 'I wish everything on this piece of paper was true'
and
568. My first wish cannot be "I wish you grant all my wishes to the spirit and letter of the wish'
With that being said, I cannot fathom how your scout is going to activate the scroll. UMD isn't a class skill for scouts and even with cross-class ranks its going to be difficult. If the scout somehow pulls it off, I'd be surprised and a little suspicious. This goes for all the other scrolls your player wants.
As its been said often enough here, wishing for more wishes is typically considered a no go. But lets say he somehow gets his wish to grant him a ring of three wishes. There are a lot of things to do here.
First, he gets transported to the ring. He only need reach out and grab it. Pay no attention to the large, angry demon/dragon/wizard glaring at you from behind.
Second, he gets the item but it requires some sort of sacrifice to work. You get a wish but you have to gain a permanent negative level when you use it. Or if they ever tell someone what their wish was, it is immediately undone.
Third, the lore for a nymph is that they defend a location they consider sacred. Asking to gain all the abilities of a nymph would, in my opinion, give the player this too. Each day that your scout doesn't spend trying to get to their sacred location (s)he gets hit with the penalties from geas. Also, even if your scout gains the spell casting, make sure they have the appropriate wisdom score to cast!
nijineko
Explorer
excellent point, and definitely something that should be implemented.
Mishihari Lord
First Post
Wishing for more wishes is never okay. If you allow that, the PC becomes omnipotent, which doesn't make for a fun game.
My general rule is that a wish does something equivalent in scope to other 9th level spells (in AD&D) with no problem. If you wish for something more, then karma dictates that there are going to be problems or drawbacks which coincidentally alleviate any concerns I have for the wish diminishing the fun of the game. I will even let the players know roughly how bad the drawbacks will be ahead of time so that they know what I consider a reasonable wish; sometimes the drawbacks are worth putting up with.
Since this is an obvious perversion of the spirit of the game, and your player knows better, I'd say that the ring is teleported in from an extreme low-temperature plane. It's made of solid helium and when it appears it vaporizes within microseconds, destroying the magic. This fits all the conditions. If the player asks "why" you can say that the entity that granted your wish didn't like your attitude.
Edit: Lots of great ideas above. Wish-twisting and wish-lawyering are a traditional part of D&D and can be a lot of fun for everyone if your group is into that. Some aren't though. My own preference is to give fair warning, then twist the wish in a fun and creative way if the wisher oversteps himself.
My general rule is that a wish does something equivalent in scope to other 9th level spells (in AD&D) with no problem. If you wish for something more, then karma dictates that there are going to be problems or drawbacks which coincidentally alleviate any concerns I have for the wish diminishing the fun of the game. I will even let the players know roughly how bad the drawbacks will be ahead of time so that they know what I consider a reasonable wish; sometimes the drawbacks are worth putting up with.
Since this is an obvious perversion of the spirit of the game, and your player knows better, I'd say that the ring is teleported in from an extreme low-temperature plane. It's made of solid helium and when it appears it vaporizes within microseconds, destroying the magic. This fits all the conditions. If the player asks "why" you can say that the entity that granted your wish didn't like your attitude.
Edit: Lots of great ideas above. Wish-twisting and wish-lawyering are a traditional part of D&D and can be a lot of fun for everyone if your group is into that. Some aren't though. My own preference is to give fair warning, then twist the wish in a fun and creative way if the wisher oversteps himself.
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