Within Rules: How many PHb character combinations?

[Emirikol]

Here's a question for those of you who know math better than me:

How many possible character combinations are there using the following specifications:

1. Players Handbook Only
2. Class (1st level only)
3. Race
4. Feats


Excluding all other variables: Skills chosen, Ability score combinations, Vital stats: height, weight, etc., gold, weapons, armor, equipment chosen, spells etc.

Emirikol the Chaotic

 

[Staffan]

I don't have my PHB with me at the moment, but here's how I'd count it:
1. Start with the classes.
2. For each class, count how many feats they could qualify for at 1st level. Don't count stats as prereqs, just class-based things (like spellcasting, BAB, etc.).
3. Multiply the sum you get from (2) by the number of races. I don't think there are any feats with prereqs that would be invalidated by racial stuff - I think the highest stat prereq in the PHB is 15.

 

[drnuncheon]

I don't have my PHB with me at the moment, but here's how I'd count it:
1. Start with the classes.
2. For each class, count how many feats they could qualify for at 1st level. Don't count stats as prereqs, just class-based things (like spellcasting, BAB, etc.)

Humans get 2 feats at first level, as do fighters, so there needs to be a lot of multiplying going on here to represent all of the possible combinations. Even more if you count (say) Weapon Focus: Greatsword as different from Weapon Focus: Hand Axe.

J

 

[Vargo]

Don't forget the extra feat humans get.

Bard
Barbarian
Cleric
Druid
Ranger
Paladin
Fighter
Wizard
Sorcerer
Rogue
Monk

Halfling
Gnome
Dwarf
Elf
Half-Elf
Human
Half-Orc

That's 11 classes, six races. Out of those 11, the fighter gets a "bonus fighter feat." Humans get a bonus feat, so:

10(classes-fighter)x(feats)x5(races-human)+
1(fighter)x(feats)x(fighter bonus feats)x5(races-human)+
10(classes-fighter)x(feats)x(feats)x1(human)+
1(fighter)x(feats)x(feats)x(fighter bonus feats)x1(human)

I think.

 

[CRGreathouse]

NOTE: I'm sure there are minor mistakes in the analysis below, but the method is fundamentally sound, I believe.

Number of feat choices by class (nonhuman):
Bbn 36, Brd 36, Clr 34, Drd 35, Ftr 1195, Mnk 37, Pal 35, Rgr 35, Rog 36, Sor 37, Wiz 38 (total 1554)

Number of nonhuman races: 6

Number of possibilities for nonhumans: 9324

Number of feat choices by class (human):
Bbn 1265, Brd 1265, Clr 1127, Drd 1195, Ftr 4863, Mnk 1336, Pal 1195, Rgr 1195, Rog 1265, Sor 1337, Wiz 1411 (total 17454)

Grand total: 26,778

 

[Crothian]

Here's a question for those of you who know math better than me:

How many possible character combinations are there using the following specifications:

Out of curiosity what made you ask and inquire on this?

 

[Hypersmurf]

How about :

Wizard (Generalist)
Wizard (Transmuter)
Wizard (Evoker)
... etc.

Can someone with a forbidden school of Divination, say, take Spell Focus (Divination)?

-Hyp.

 

[drnuncheon]

Can someone with a forbidden school of Divination, say, take Spell Focus (Divination)?

Yes, as can a fighter or a rogue (although why they'd want to is another matter) - there is no caster level prerequisite for the feat.

J

 

[Emirikol]

<<Out of curiosity what made you ask and inquire on this?>>


Don't you ever feel like you've seen it all before? I recently made a humanfighter character with two weapon/ambidex/combat reflexes. I thought to myself how many times has this been done before? Since the number of variations is finite, it makes sense that 'starting packages' of characters almost should be the order of the day.

This is true at least for Prestige Classes..which if presented with a 'starting package' would help the DM immensely..but that is another topic.


I think it also shows how limited characters are in regards to originality if a player plays a non-human character. I think that one feat makes a lot of difference, just to pick up the same ability-set as every other one out there. This makes it seem that any variation in the amount of races, classes, or feats that a DM allows can drastically affect the originality of characters from a 3-point standing. Without this variation, everyone starts looking like a standard Imperial Stormtrooper. Again, we're ignoring the other traits that would make a character original (skill sets, personality, etc.), but when it comes to creating a character.. should you really bother to take any variation of the standard if it's all been done before?

Really, there's what? Maybe 4 different types of fighter out there when it comes to major design: the bully, the expert, the archer, and the cavalryman.

The ranger and monk eat up the other two categories..and talk about feeling like you're playing a clone of a clone of a clone...look at those classes. Even 3.5E's not going to be able to clean that mess up.


Em

 

[Hypersmurf]

If every human Ftr-1 with Power Attack and Cleave comes across exactly the same in your game, then it's not solely due to a deficiency in the system...

I've met many human Ftr-1s with those feats... and while there are broad stereotypes, they are by no means all mirror images of each other...!

It's like a game of chess. There are only 20 possible moves white can make to open with... that doesn't mean that all the games end the same way!

-Hyp.