Wizard spellbook blues
- Thread starter Thurbane
- Start date
Fifth Element
Legend
Before doing something this...petulant, I guess...I would suggest talking to the DM about it, explaining your perspective and why you think the house rule is unnecessarily punitive to your wizard. Showing up/embarrassing the DM is generally not a good idea, and it shows a lack of respect. Unless you're looking at a last resort, this sort of thing should be avoided.Storme said:
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Well eventually a Boccob's Blessed Book (1,000 pages without paying the 100 gp per page material cost to scribe, but costs 12,500 gp). But that doesn't help you a lot right now, unless your DM wants to give your character one to compensate for the house rule.
I think one solution would be for your DM to allow you to obtain scrolls from your Wizards Guild at cost, rather than at the retail price. That would compensate for you not having the time to scribe the scrolls yourself. It doesn't address your money issues however.
The two suggestions made also make sense as far as prestige classes go.
Reducing gold pieces in a campaign can sometimes have a negative effect on the game. Since opponents are balanced against the players with a base assumption that those players are equipped with stuff at around the average gold piece value in the DMG, fights can become increasingly dangerous. One effect is often the party raiding a place, and spending the time to sell everything they find in that location including the kitchen sink and floor boards. That solves the problem, but it's not fun.
I think one solution would be for your DM to allow you to obtain scrolls from your Wizards Guild at cost, rather than at the retail price. That would compensate for you not having the time to scribe the scrolls yourself. It doesn't address your money issues however.
The two suggestions made also make sense as far as prestige classes go.
Reducing gold pieces in a campaign can sometimes have a negative effect on the game. Since opponents are balanced against the players with a base assumption that those players are equipped with stuff at around the average gold piece value in the DMG, fights can become increasingly dangerous. One effect is often the party raiding a place, and spending the time to sell everything they find in that location including the kitchen sink and floor boards. That solves the problem, but it's not fun.
lobsterGun
Explorer
Storme said:
This approach is less confrontational then punching your DM in the junk, but only a little bit less. If you want to go this route, a less 'your-game-sucks-and-you-are-dumb' way might be to make arrangements ahead of time to bring in another character that you can play when your wizard is doing wizard things. A warlock might be a good choice, that way you don't have to deal with his screwed-up and arbitrary house rules.
Thurbane
First Post
The DM is a good friend of mine, I won't have to resort to anything that drastic to get this sorted. I'm 35, and we've been friends for about 25 years, a good 20 of that gaming together. 
Anyway, here's the seemingly contradictory bits of the SRD (which are the same in the Rules Compendium):
Anyway, here's the seemingly contradictory bits of the SRD (which are the same in the Rules Compendium):
nittanytbone
First Post
First, this is not a new issue. As I am sure you remember from 1E, wizards required inordinate amounts of downtime from the start. They wanted downtime to learn new spells, they wanted downtime to make scrolls (every wizard could at level 7+), and they wanted it to prepare spells (it took hours of sleep PLUS 15 minutes per spell level -- your mid to high level casters literally can spend DAYS memorizing their load outs!). To complicate issues, in 1E, everyone got charged living expenses (100 GP/level/month) which tended to make the non-casters awfully antsy about taking weeks of time off.
Another Class
Wizards have always flourished in campaigns with lots of downtime. The current edition is no difference. If you know that your DM likes to run such a game, the best solution is simply to play another class. For example, an illusionist trickster can be easily rebuilt with a Beguiler. A fighter/mage can easily be redone as a Duskblade. A diviner might be a Cloistered Cleric with appropriate domain selection. A flashy blaster would make a fine sorcerer. When converting old characters (such as your Thurbane), just because they were a "wizard" in a previous edition doesn't mean that they should necessarily be called the same thing in the new version.
Ringer
Another solution is to obtain a ringer that you can play while Thurbane is holed up in his tower scribing scrolls and such. Take the leadership feat so you can adventure via your cohort or at lower levels hire a man-at-arms -- a second level warrior is decently tough and pretty inexpensive, and can be competent if decently equipped.
Get More Downtime
Try and set the party up with some downtime occasionally. A long ocean voyage provides plenty of time to learn spells. Encourage your group's divine caster to take a crafting feat so that the two of you can advocate for the occasional day off. Use your freebie spells to learn things you want to know, and then volunteer to learn buffs for your party members later: "Oh, sure, Mr. Rogue -- I'd be happy to learn Darkvision and cast it on you occasionally, but I'll need a few days of downtime." Always have a new scroll spell on hand so that if you unexpectedly come into a day off -- maybe a storm blows through and everyone is stuck in the tavern all day -- you can use it productively.
Another Class
Wizards have always flourished in campaigns with lots of downtime. The current edition is no difference. If you know that your DM likes to run such a game, the best solution is simply to play another class. For example, an illusionist trickster can be easily rebuilt with a Beguiler. A fighter/mage can easily be redone as a Duskblade. A diviner might be a Cloistered Cleric with appropriate domain selection. A flashy blaster would make a fine sorcerer. When converting old characters (such as your Thurbane), just because they were a "wizard" in a previous edition doesn't mean that they should necessarily be called the same thing in the new version.
Ringer
Another solution is to obtain a ringer that you can play while Thurbane is holed up in his tower scribing scrolls and such. Take the leadership feat so you can adventure via your cohort or at lower levels hire a man-at-arms -- a second level warrior is decently tough and pretty inexpensive, and can be competent if decently equipped.
Get More Downtime
Try and set the party up with some downtime occasionally. A long ocean voyage provides plenty of time to learn spells. Encourage your group's divine caster to take a crafting feat so that the two of you can advocate for the occasional day off. Use your freebie spells to learn things you want to know, and then volunteer to learn buffs for your party members later: "Oh, sure, Mr. Rogue -- I'd be happy to learn Darkvision and cast it on you occasionally, but I'll need a few days of downtime." Always have a new scroll spell on hand so that if you unexpectedly come into a day off -- maybe a storm blows through and everyone is stuck in the tavern all day -- you can use it productively.
ElectricDragon
Explorer
Wizard's spellbooks have always been a pet peeve of mine.
For Example:
16 Intelligence, 5th level generalist wizard, found 2-1st level spells, 3-2nd level spells, 1-3rd level spell to add to spellbook. Always added highest level spells he could cast as free spells each level.
Spellbook Worth: 4,100 gp plus cost of found spells.
Cost of Found Spells:
1. 6 full-round actions to decipher the spells; Spellcraft DC 20 + spell level (unless he used Read Magic)
2. 48 hours to learn the spells (at 8 hours per spell); Spellcraft DC 15 + spell level
3. 1,100 gp to scribe these spells
4. 144 hours to scribe the spells into his spellbook (at 24 hours per spell).
Total Price for these six spells: 13 days, 36 seconds, 1,100 gp, and 11 pages. If the DM only allows 8 hours of work per day that increases the time required to 39 days.
This will take up 11 more pages of his spellbook for a total of 52 pages (19 cantrips, 10 1st level, 7 2nd level, and 3 3rd level).
Total Worth of Spellbook after scribing: 5,200 gp (5th level character wealth guidelines suggest 9,000 gp total).
Note: spellbooks are the only thing in the game that cost more to make than they can be sold for (the wizard’s 5,200 gp spellbook is only worth 2,600 gp on the open market).
And this is without any house rules to make it harder...
Ciao
Dave
For Example:
16 Intelligence, 5th level generalist wizard, found 2-1st level spells, 3-2nd level spells, 1-3rd level spell to add to spellbook. Always added highest level spells he could cast as free spells each level.
Spellbook Worth: 4,100 gp plus cost of found spells.
Cost of Found Spells:
1. 6 full-round actions to decipher the spells; Spellcraft DC 20 + spell level (unless he used Read Magic)
2. 48 hours to learn the spells (at 8 hours per spell); Spellcraft DC 15 + spell level
3. 1,100 gp to scribe these spells
4. 144 hours to scribe the spells into his spellbook (at 24 hours per spell).
Total Price for these six spells: 13 days, 36 seconds, 1,100 gp, and 11 pages. If the DM only allows 8 hours of work per day that increases the time required to 39 days.
This will take up 11 more pages of his spellbook for a total of 52 pages (19 cantrips, 10 1st level, 7 2nd level, and 3 3rd level).
Total Worth of Spellbook after scribing: 5,200 gp (5th level character wealth guidelines suggest 9,000 gp total).
Note: spellbooks are the only thing in the game that cost more to make than they can be sold for (the wizard’s 5,200 gp spellbook is only worth 2,600 gp on the open market).
And this is without any house rules to make it harder...
Ciao
Dave
ElectricDragon said:
Since the break down supplied was for the six spells (which corresopond to the numbers and levels gained for free at each level) - this is all house-rules.
The spells gained for "free" cost nothing in money or time to add to the wixard's spell book.
PHB pg 179
Hrm.
You know, I suspect these are saying the same thing.
8 hours = 1 day of work.
Plus, the first rule is from Spellcraft, and the DC for that use is 15 + spell level, just as it is in the second.
So, not having checked anything really, and not being all that familiar with wizards, I'd say it's two ways of saying the same thing - it takes a full work day (8 hours in D&D) to learn a spell from a scroll.
