Wizard Spells 10-16 Two Page Spread

[Plane Sailing]

I phrased that totally wrong. What I meant to say was that all Fortitude-based attacks aren't just secondary effects from other attacks, so making the extra images disappear only on Ref/AC attacks might not cover everything.

The Hobgoblin Warcaster has Force Lance, an ability that is a single-target ranged attack against Fortitude, which deals 2d8+4 force damage and slides the target 3 squares. Although it doesn't target Reflex or Fortitude, it sure sounds like something that MI would make harder to target.

Excellent example.

To bring together a potential problem that others have noted separately - Reflex defence seems to now include 'touch attack' and 'reflex save' from the old world merged together.

Which is fine, except that some things that mirror image should protect against (old touch attack) end up being conflated with things that it should have no relevance to (old reflex save) since Reflex defence covers it all.

Unless WotC has some last minute changes in mind, I forsee difficulties, disgruntlement and problems arising from this!

Cheers

 

[fuindordm]

I really don't understand why they felt they had to express the effect of Mirror Image in terms of defenses at all...

I think I'll just be houseruling that one to "You get 3 images in your square. Any attack targeted on you has a chance of targeting an image instead. A hit dispels the image. Traps,
area effects, and environmental conditions usually do not dispel the images."

Are there any situations that this does not cover? Is it too powerful?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Is it too powerful?

That's going to be difficult to answer until we see the PHB, won't it? So much depends upon how other things are arranged.

 

[Mentat55]

I phrased that totally wrong. What I meant to say was that all Fortitude-based attacks aren't just secondary effects from other attacks, so making the extra images disappear only on Ref/AC attacks might not cover everything.

The Hobgoblin Warcaster has Force Lance, an ability that is a single-target ranged attack against Fortitude, which deals 2d8+4 force damage and slides the target 3 squares. Although it doesn't target Reflex or Fortitude, it sure sounds like something that MI would make harder to target.

Good get. I think the rogue's Crimson Edge attack also targets Fortitude, but is clearly a physical attack that, in prior versions, mirror image would defend against.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

Maybe Mirror Image could just be a +6 bonus to all Defenses that only applies against single target powers/spells, decreasing as attacks miss or something similar.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Are there any situations that this does not cover?

You end up with the complexities that 3E has, so the spell description ends up being three times as long, and still has more FAQ answers than any other spell (some of which contradict the spell text).

If the ranger shoots you and it turns out he picked the right one, can observers then ignore the images they know to be false? For how long?

Does an image have a Will Defence? Does it just use yours? Does the image have an Armor Class? Is an image wearing plate armor harder to hit than an image wearing leather armor?

What happens if the attacker has his eyes closed?

-Hyp.

 

[rkanodia]

Maybe Mirror Image could just be a +6 bonus to all Defenses that only applies against single target powers/spells, decreasing as attacks miss or something similar.

I'd also include the caveat, "non-followup". This means that the poison never hits the wrong target AFTER the stinger makes contact. I don't think causing a 'one-two punch' to never miss the second punch because of the image is a loss in believability. I mean, he already hit the 'real' you once, so he should know which is which until you move again.

 

[hong]

I think they should just drop mirror image. It's one of those spells that just doesn't fit cleanly into the new framework (nor into the old framework, even). They can always make a new defensive spell to replace it with.

 

[Campbell]

I think they should just drop mirror image. It's one of those spells that just doesn't fit cleanly into the new framework (nor into the old framework, even). They can always make a new defensive spell to replace it with.

This.

 

[WalnutNinja]

I know I'm a bit late for this discussion, but I noticed a few things that seem to have a common meme with other threads that deal with rules:

- 4 Kobold minions in 4 rooms and 15 minutes left on a ritual -

I know this was in the spirit of facetiousness, but it's important to remember that PC's don't *have* to rest after every encounter. They can just rush off to the next one without recouping any spent Second Winds, Encounter powers, etc. So they just rush through the rooms smashing heads, breaking tiny reptilian necks, and scorching scales.

- Minions and hitpoints -

Yes, minions die when they are *hit* Whether this is intentional or just poor phrasing, any game I run will have minions falling over clutching their disemboweled innards if they take any damage at all. Which I believe is the intention: that minions fall over even if you roll poorly on your damage.

- Paladin Challenge vs Otiluke's bubble of Benchwarming -

I believe I saw somewhere that wizards has changed the wording of the paladin's divine challenge to reduce the instance of abuse. IMO, anyone trapped in the bubble isn't subject to a "challenge" because they're in a situation where they're prevented from hitting the paladin, which is outside the spirit of the power. Said poor mook would be allowed to beat down the sphere, but once breaking out, would be required to head straight to the pally to avoid being radiated to a crisp. Same thing occurs if the paladin challenges an enemy without a ranged attack, then the wizard levitates said paladin above the battlefield. *Not* a challenge.

There was something else, but I didnt get enough sleep last night to remember it.
My overall point is that there's something inherently missing among all these posts about exploits based on vague wording:

A responsible DM.

I play WoW a lot, but the primary thing that keeps me coming back to the table is the creative force behind the game, whether I'm running it or one of my friends is. Most of the posts citing exploits seem to operate in a vacuum where there's noone at the head of the table with a screen saying, "yeah, umm... No." Some of these posts are probably only poking fun at mis-wordings that create unusual or humorous situations, and I bow to said poster's rapier wit. On the other hand, I sit at my kitchen table and firmy reserve the "Scroll of No" and the "Hammer of WTF were you Thinking" for my personal use when situations like this come up.

Just my 2 copper.