Wizard vs. Monk...Winner?

[Macbrea]

Got a silly question on Mord's disjunction. Does the monk loose the inherit bonuses gained from a manual or tome when hit by it?

 

[Artoomis]

Got a silly question on Mord's disjunction. Does the monk loose the inherit bonuses gained from a manual or tome when hit by it?

No.

 

[Artoomis]

Atoomis: The only way the Monk can win is if he has a minor artifact? Are you being serious?

No. But if there is a chance the monk has any artifact, even very minor one, then the wizard will NOT use M's Disjunction.

 

[Artoomis]

M's Disjunction ends ALL spells (no save) and possibly items (Will Save), right?

Why not have it in a ring of spell storing, major for the monk? First action, end all buffs for the wizard plus a lot of items, too.

 

[Thanee]

Well, if the monk does anything, that does not immediately kill the wizard, the monk is actually pretty much dead afterwards (not immediately, but effectively).

Bye
Thanee

 

[tylermalan]

I propose turning the question slightly: "How would an arena need to be modified to give the Wizard and Monk closer to an equal chance of winning" (other that the arena, we use the original suggestion). Some ideas:
1) Top the Ceiling at, say, 15'. This reduces the advantage of Fly.
2) Make the Ceiling, walls, and floor out of exotica. Like layered walls of force layerd with Prismatic Walls (or a simular effect- the Prismatic wall has to be verticle). Hit the entire internal area with Dimensional Lock.
3) Give a lot of really good cover (lead-lined cubbyholes made out of force?), and a significant amount of concealment.
4) Limit line of sight to a short distance.
5) Do not limit hearing.
6) Have numerous antimagic and/or Wild Magic fields. Have them move, either randomly or in patterns which aren't trivially discernable.
7) Have numerous mechanical and magical traps in the arena, some of which are non-trivial for summoned creatures to trigger. Make the vast majority of them reflex-save based.

I think that all of these combined may be close to evening the odds.

So then, pretty much what you're saying is that the Wizard is way better than the Monk, so much so that to make the odds "even", you have to take away a ton of the Wizard's inherent, class-based advantages? I'm not prodding, I'm actually asking if that's the point you're trying to get across.

 

[tylermalan]

Well, if the monk does anything, that does not immediately kill the wizard, the monk is actually pretty much dead afterwards (not immediately, but effectively).

Bye
Thanee

Again, I agree. The Monk doesn't exactly have days to waste NOT killing the Wizard, because as soon as the Wizard gets a chance, he's going to take it, and the Monk, in all probability, will only survive if the rolls are in his favor. But like I said, in all probability...

 

[Nail]

M's Disjunction ends ALL spells (no save) and possibly items (Will Save), right?

Why not have it in a ring of spell storing, major for the monk? First action, end all buffs for the wizard plus a lot of items, too.

Good call.

The problem is that then the wizard gets to act....and he's got more spells.

Let's ground this discussion, shall we? --> "Is there something that the Monk can do, that other classes can't do, that dooms the poor Wiz 20?

If the Monk's only hope is magic items, I think we've answered the over-arching question.

 

[tylermalan]

Good question, can any of the Monk enthusiasts answer it with an answer that hasn't already been given (and consequently, shown to have been not that effective)?

 

[Shadowdweller]

Assume feat Spell penetration for +2 DC.

10 + 9th level spell + 12 + 2 = DC 33

Err...Spell Penetration applies to SR checks, not save DCs. That little +2 is equivalent to BOTH Spell Focus: Abjuration AND Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration (two whole feats!).

If the Monk's only hope is magic items, I think we've answered the over-arching question.

Well, one thing the monk can do is close effectively and nonmagically after activating Antimagic Field (say by Ring of Spell Storing).