D&D 5E Wizard with 20 CON and the Durable feat

[jadrax]

So my d6 HD wizard with a 20 Con rolls a 1 on his HD. How many HP does he get?

10 from the d6 roll and 5 from Con bonus.

 

[TheWriterFantastic™]

While I agree that the implied intent would be that the minimum the character regains for hit points is referring to the total of the hit die roll plus modifier in relation to the doubled Constitution modifier (i.e. Wizard with 20 Con rolls d6+5, minimum result being 10 would result in regaining either 10 or 11 hp), reading it as the minimum result of the d6 being 10 doesn't seem to break the game (much), since the maximum hit point total isn't affected by this interpretation -- the Wizard still has a base of 11 hp, +9 hp for each additional level on average, with 38 max hp at 4th level (on average) -- the wizard at 1 hp is looking to spend 3-4 HD to top off, with 3 HD used regaining 30-33 with the implied 10-11 regain per HD, or 45 with the inferred 15 regain per HD. I'll be running my games on the conservative interpretation, but I doubt it would hurt the game much in the other direction.

 

[jodyjohnson]

It's a trap.

It is no more broken than the normal SOP of healing to full between each encounter if possible.

And if your Wizard is taking that much damage per combat it is very likely he is frequently faceplanting.

 

[keterys]

Ye Gods. I just found my first banned feat.

So my d6 HD wizard with a 20 Con rolls a 1 on his HD. How many HP does he get?

15. There's also no point to him rolling.

And it's also not worth banning, because it _so doesn't matter_. Especially not if he had to invest to get that 20 Con instead of through magically awesome rolled stats. If you roll stats and somehow he has a 20 Int and Con and a feat before 20th level, you get what you deserve.

 

[variant]

Ye Gods. I just found my first banned feat.

So my d6 HD wizard with a 20 Con rolls a 1 on his HD. How many HP does he get?

10 if you roll a 1-5, 11 if you roll a 6.

15. There's also no point to him rolling.

And it's also not worth banning, because it _so doesn't matter_. Especially not if he had to invest to get that 20 Con instead of through magically awesome rolled stats. If you roll stats and somehow he has a 20 Int and Con and a feat before 20th level, you get what you deserve.

The brokenness of what is being suggested isn't an issue with the wizard. It's an issue with every other class. If it was 15, every class except the barbarian would get maximum hit dice with a 20 Constitution.

 

[Remathilis]

I think I'll stick with the "cap the total by max on the die" (the 10-11 model). I don't expect it will come into play, but I like the notion that a character can "roll" a 10 on a d6 or d8.

 

[variant]

In 5e, "roll" does not mean roll + modifiers. Look at the 5e definition of attack roll, it specifies the total of the roll + modifiers. In the 3e definition of attack roll, it only specifies the result.

Mike's first post was confused. He was thinking in 3e terms (which is why he thought some feature should say natural roll, a term that doesn't exist in 5e). He later corrected himself.

Final ruling is that a 20 Con durable wizard regains 15 HP per HD spent

This is not true. There are numerous times in the Basic Rules that the words attack roll is used without mentioning modifiers. When Bless says, "Whenever a target makes an attack roll or a saving throw before the spell ends, the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the attack roll or saving throw." Do you think they mean you can only apply the Bless d4 if you don't use your attack roll modifier?

 

[Dausuul]

In 5e, "roll" does not mean roll + modifiers. Look at the 5e definition of attack roll, it specifies the total of the roll + modifiers. In the 3e definition of attack roll, it only specifies the result.

Mike's first post was confused. He was thinking in 3e terms (which is why he thought some feature should say natural roll, a term that doesn't exist in 5e). He later corrected himself.

Final ruling is that a 20 Con durable wizard regains 15 HP per HD spent

Citation for that final ruling? The tweets posted so far in this thread say nothing of the sort.

 

[keterys]

The brokenness of what is being suggested isn't an issue with the wizard. It's an issue with every other class. If it was 15, every class except the barbarian would get maximum hit dice with a 20 Constitution.

And that still wouldn't be broken.

Maybe if it healed 1500 per hit die it'd be broken, but even then I'm not convinced. It has zero impact on an encounter, only comes up during 1-hour breaks, only really matters for 1/2 your level of them (what you get back per day), etc.

It's like saying someone can do infinite damage when attacking 1HD tiny creatures. I'll look at their 1 to 4 hp and shrug and go "Okay, so it doesn't materially affect the game?" Except _that_ would potentially have a greater effect on encounters than durable's bonus to healing from hit dice.

 

[Ashkelon]

Citation for that final ruling? The tweets posted so far in this thread say nothing of the sort.

The last few of mikes tweets point to that as the ruling. Mikes very last tweet answers Chris's question if a 20 Con durable wizard would gain more HP than is possible from rolling their HD (because the minimum from the roll is 10 and the HD d6 has a max of 6).