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D&D 5E Wizard with 20 CON and the Durable feat

Does the wizard get 10 hit points each time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 43.2%
  • No

    Votes: 27 36.5%
  • Yes but rocks fall on him and he takes 1d4 bludgeoning damage

    Votes: 15 20.3%

Ashkelon

First Post
So here is the 3e Definition of attack roll.
"Your attack roll is 1d20 + your attack bonus with the weapon you’re using. If the result is at least as high as the target’s AC, you hit and deal damage.


Here is the 3e Definition of a critical hit.
"When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class and you have scored a threat.


5e is different. Look athe the 5e definition of attack roll.
"When you make an attack, your attack roll determines whether the attack hits or misses. To make an attack roll, roll a d20 and add the appropriate modifiers. If the total of the roll plus modifiers equals or exceeds the target’s Armor Class (AC), the attack hits."

5e specifically separates the roll from the modifiers. Roll + modifiers is not the attack roll, the roll is just the d20. In 3e, the attack roll is the roll + modifiers. Now look at the 5e critical hit rules.
"If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. In addition, the attack is a critical hit, as explained later in this chapter. If the d20 roll for an attack is a 1, the attack misses regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC."

Notice how they don't need to call out a "natural roll" in 5e. This is because the roll only ever refers to the d20 roll. In 3e, they needed a separate term for natural roll, because the roll meant the die roll plus modifiers. In 5e, this is no longer the case. The roll is only the result of the die roll.

Some more examples:
Lucky. When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll.
Superior Critical Starting at 15th level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 18–20.
Reliable Talent By 11th level, you have refined your chosen skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

None of those call out a "natural roll". The roll only means the die roll, not the total of the die roll plus bonuses.

Now for short rests and HD healing.
"A character can spend one or more Hit Dice at the end of a short rest, up to the character’s maximum number of Hit Dice, which is equal to the character’s level. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s Constitution modifier to it. The character regains hit points equal to the total."

Notice they don't say "you recover an amount of HP equal to the amount rolled". They are very obviously avoiding 3e style wording where "roll" really meant die roll + total. In 5e, they state that the roll + the total is something. The roll is clearly only the HD rolled. The amount of HP recovered is the amount from the rolled die + the Consitution modifier. This makes sense given the wording of the druable feat:
"When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals your Constitution modifier"

That is from the alpha version of durable. The only way that feat does anything is if the roll relates to only the HD roll, not the HD roll + Con mod. The wording is identical to the final version, the feat was simply buffed. This means that the roll must only relate to the amount rolled on the dice. This falls in line with all the 5e definitions of "roll". There are no instances in 5E that follow the 3e style wording of roll being die roll + modifier.
 

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Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
FYI Mike Mearls has revised his interpretation;

@ mikemearls yeah, just looked at feat. the min roll + con mod application is fine.
@ mikemearls just looked at the feat - the wording issue is there. should be result, not roll
@ mikemearls though realistically, applying that to the roll doesn't make the feat too good - you dropped a 20 into Con and took the feat
 
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Prism

Explorer
So it looks like he is saying, we have probably written the feat incorrectly as it should really say result not roll but since it does in fact say roll then that ruling is fine too. So play whichever you like - its all good

Watch nobody actually take this feat :)

Right, can we get back to more important stuff like can I second wind all day long or how many hands do I need to cast a spell while juggling two weapons and a shield
 

jadrax

Adventurer
Chris Carlson ‏@ccarlson101 41m
@mikemearls so a class with d6 or d8 HD and a 20 con can use durable to get back more than max possible?
Mike Mearls ‏@mikemearls
@ccarlson101 yes

Just to keep everyone up to date.
 



variant

Adventurer
Right? Because the only way that's relevant is if they actually meant roll, not result. :erm:

So this is his clarification from what I gather. As it is written, the minimum is 10 since a roll is always the roll + modifiers. Except he says there's a wording issue and it should be a result which is the roll + modifiers. If you want to apply it to only the roll without modifiers, it's fine as it doesn't make the feat too good. Then he clarifies again and says you can get more back than possible.

Edit: Okay, I see the chain of events here. Mike Mearls is replying to ccarlson101 which is specifically talking about the alternative interpretation of the feat where roll doesn't mean roll + modifiers.

The problem is people posting Mike Mearls' tweets out of context.
 
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Ashkelon

First Post
In 5e, "roll" does not mean roll + modifiers. Look at the 5e definition of attack roll, it specifies the total of the roll + modifiers. In the 3e definition of attack roll, it only specifies the result.

Mike's first post was confused. He was thinking in 3e terms (which is why he thought some feature should say natural roll, a term that doesn't exist in 5e). He later corrected himself.

Final ruling is that a 20 Con durable wizard regains 15 HP per HD spent
 


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