Wizard with Bluff and Intimidate as class skills - balance?

[Psionicist]

Hi there!

I am working on a character, a level 6 wizard, and because I thought it'd fit the theme/personality I gave him the feat Versatile [Bluff / Intimidate ] from Rokugan ("make two cross class skills, class skills"). When I showed this to my DM he promptly told me I couldn't take the feat, no explanation.

I asked him if he had any problems with the feat Cosmopolitan (Forgotten Realms). He hadn't (unfortunately it's a regional feat I cannot take). I asked if he bothered if I took a level of rogue. He didn't mind. I asked why I couldn't sacrifice two feats to make the skills class skills (isn't this a perfect use for feats?). He didn't tell me.

Can you see any problems with this? I can't.

Thanks

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Personally, I can't see the problem there... but I'm not your GM!

If it is going to be a very roleplay intensive game, then this might be too strong?


Could it be worth suggesting a compromise? Perhaps sacrificing some of the other wizard skills? Possibly drop Decipher script and/or some/all of the knowledges? For this you get to add 1 or other of them to your class list.

Either that or bite the bullet and take them as cross class skills - spend the two feats on skill focus... especially if you have a decent charisma, you'll end up with a reasonable total in both of them and you should have enough skillpoints to make this possible?

Perhaps find or design a prestige class for a sociable wizard?

Play a Sorceror. Take Skill Focus: Intimidate - pump up your bluff class skill to get the synergy bonus with Intimidate - you'd be pretty impressive!

 

[welby]

perhaps this role is supposed to be filled by someone else in the party? It's certainly not too powerful if you burn two feats, so there has to be another reason. I'd insist that your DM give you a reason. A DM saying no is one thing. A DM saying no with no explanation is quite another.

 

[Simplicity]

My guess is that the DM just has a problem with feats from sources
other than the PHB and FR. Is it a Rokugan campaign?

I know that I don't allow feats from just any source as a DM. Simply because there's so MANY sources that if I don't cut it off somewhere,
I'm going to get wonky requests for totally unbalanced feats from strange
sources. Sticking with the core books/WotC splatbooks/setting book means that I don't have to arbitrate whether some external feat is a good one or not.

 

[rrealm]

Hi there!

I am working on a character, a level 6 wizard, and because I thought it'd fit the theme/personality I gave him the feat Versatile [Bluff / Intimidate ] from Rokugan

I don't understand why your DM wouldn't allow that feat. IMC I do not allow monks, samurais, or other "oriental” classes but I would allow a feat like that. It is a good, General feat that could have easily been placed in the PHB or Song and Silence. It just happens to be sitting in an oriental campaign book.

If your DM is unwilling to give you answers to your questions/problems before the game starts, don't expect it to happen during game play when he misinterprets magic missile or some other silly thing. Looks like he’s waving a red flag to me.

 

[DarkMaster]

Raise them as CC skills. But IMC I would allow the feat but would prohibit you a quicker access to certain prestige class.

 

[reanjr]

Hi there!

I am working on a character, a level 6 wizard, and because I thought it'd fit the theme/personality I gave him the feat Versatile [Bluff / Intimidate ] from Rokugan ("make two cross class skills, class skills"). When I showed this to my DM he promptly told me I couldn't take the feat, no explanation.

I asked him if he had any problems with the feat Cosmopolitan (Forgotten Realms). He hadn't (unfortunately it's a regional feat I cannot take). I asked if he bothered if I took a level of rogue. He didn't mind. I asked why I couldn't sacrifice two feats to make the skills class skills (isn't this a perfect use for feats?). He didn't tell me.

Can you see any problems with this? I can't.

Thanks

I can give you an example problem (I probably wouldn't allow this feat in my campaign, either):

I have a prestige class specifically designed to be able to be reached no sooner than 3rd level (requires 5 ranks in several skills). BUT, I designed it so that the only class that could reach it by that point was the Expert NPC class (a multiclass character could get there by 4th and a single class couldn't get there till 8th). There's various reasons why I did this that aren't too important, but it's designed that way for a reason. By allowing this feat, it changes the entire balance of the prestige class.

 

[DarkMaster]

Well if you designed the Prestige class you can change some of the pre requisite to prevent that. I too see a problem with this feat and the prestige class. But I like the feat so I simply don't allow the player to take the PrC before he could without the feat. I will not prevent the player rule wise to achieve it but I will add a in game element like single handly defeating a particular enemy, or being able to dispel the magic of a certain door giving access to a religious item ect. You see the idea.

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

I've done away with all rank-based prereqs for prestige classes personally, so this wouldn't effect the balance in my game. If a prestige class would normally require 7 ranks in a skill then I make entry require 3-5 examples of DC 22 checks. The applicant has to succeed at 5 of those tests. If he can do that (even if he of a much lower level or using magic buffs) I can not see the prestige organization turning him away. Afterall, the whole point is that members of that class be able to reliably make checks that a person with 7 ranks in the skill could. If he cheated and made it through with luck then he will fail as a member of the class and his 'lodge brothers' might kick him out if he fails often enough. I hated denying people entry into Prcs brcause they didn't have enough ranks at that time but they might not be back to this area of the campaign world for 7 or 8 levels.

just my two cents

 

[Malin Genie]

The version of Cosmopolitan in the 3.5E Players' Guide to Faerun just gives skill bonuses rather than allowing a cross-class skill to become a class skill. As far as I can see, there is no WotC 3.5E product allowing cross-class --> class. Perhaps it is due to a desire to limit people entering 'inappropriate' Prestige classes 'early', but personally I think it's a real shame and cuts down on the versatility of the kind of characters you can create.

So (assuming you're playing 3.0E) I'd just straight-up ask your DM why. Perhaps it is because he feels that you want the advantages of 'Cosmopolitan' while also taking the advantages of having a different starting region (although couldn't you write into your character's back-story that he lived in a Cosmopolitan region for a while and picked up a couple of ranks of Knowledge(Local), thus qualifying for the Feat 'properly'?)