Wizard's new spells each level

[Plane Sailing]

My DM had some custom feats, I think he found several of them on EN world. One was called "Archane Understanding" and it allowed a wizard to learn there INT modifer in spells each level instead of the standard 2. My wizard had and INT 18, so I got 4 spells per level instead of 2, but I had to burn a feat to do so. I think that was a really good way to balace out the benefit.

I think that feat is much too good - as written I can't imagine any wizard not taking it!

Compare it with the Tome and Blood feat "Extra spell", which gives you 1(!) extra spell for the feat IIRC. This one is much more powerful.

 

[Storm Raven]

That argument makes absolutely no sense.
What if the token turned into a +5 magic weapon, usable only by the token's creator? And it still had the same base price as the BBB? It's true that you can't sell the sword for cash, but you still get benefit from it. You're paying 9500 gp for a benefit worth many thousands more. It's still obviously unbalancing.

And by the magic item creation rules, that sword would be worth far less than a normal +5 sword.

The BBB is not obviously unbalancing because its use is limited to one wizard. That wizard gets a benefit out of it, but that benefit cannot be transferred or otherwise directly profited from. It also has some curious limitations: for example a wizard using a BBB could not create and enter a Rope Trick or Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion or store it in a bag of holding or a handy haversack, as the BBB uses an extradimensional effect (Secret Page), and taking it into another extradimensional space would be hazardous.

 

[Storm Raven]

Compare it with the Tome and Blood feat "Extra spell", which gives you 1(!) extra spell for the feat IIRC. This one is much more powerful.

That feat seems primarily aimed at Sorcerers and Bards, who have limited spell selection hard wired into their class.

 

[Quidam]

Compare it with the Tome and Blood feat "Extra spell", which gives you 1(!) extra spell for the feat IIRC. This one is much more powerful.

I think that feat is more meant for sorcerers than for wizards.

Whereas ignoring scribing costs, on the other hand, makes it something no sane mid-high level wizard would be without. It's not "highly prized", it's standard issue. It comes with the pointy hat and the starry robe as part of the uniform. For 9k, you don't think twice about it.

This could be interpreted as either the item being too powerful or the scribing costs being too nerfy. Personally, I've always considered the scribing costs for wizards to be far too expensive and the issue has been beat to unrecognizability on these boards before. Glad to know they're changing it in the next rev.

One compromise on the Book I've seen mentioned before is interpreting it thusly: Scribing costs still apply, but since the cost is based on pages and the book takes one page per spell, the costs are greatly reduced.

But back to the original thread topic- I think I'll rule-0 it IMC, as wizards are supposed to be flexible and the time & gold difference between the two options is zero. But that belongs on the House Rules board- I was originally just inquiring if there were any Variants listed in any official sources suggesting same. Guess not.

And now, back to Boccob's Bountiful Bickering!

 

[AuraSeer]

And by the magic item creation rules, that sword would be worth far less than a normal +5 sword.

You are totally missing the point.

The details of the result don't matter, only that it's worth far more than the 9500 gp paid for the item. It might be diamonds, or a magic sword, or free scribing of spells. (Even assuming an average of 4th level spells, a full BBB would save 18,000 gp in scribing costs. )

The BBB is not obviously unbalancing because its use is limited to one wizard. That wizard gets a benefit out of it, but that benefit cannot be transferred or otherwise directly profited from.

This is what you said before, and it still has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand. The wizard pays X, for a magic item that saves him far more than X. The cash he would have spent on scribing gets spent elsewhere. Even though you can't sell or spend a BBB, it's still free money.

It also has some curious limitations: for example a wizard using a BBB could not create and enter a Rope Trick or Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion or store it in a bag of holding or a handy haversack, as the BBB uses an extradimensional effect (Secret Page), and taking it into another extradimensional space would be hazardous.

First off, in 3E, not all extradimensional spaces are hazardous. Only the interaction between a Portable Hole and a Bag Of Holding is said to be dangerous. If you extend that to include all extradimensional interactions, you're using a house rule.

Second, secret page doesn't say anything about extradimensional spaces anyway. Check the description in the SRD.

 

[Storm Raven]

You are totally missing the point.

The details of the result don't matter, only that it's worth far more than the 9500 gp paid for the item. It might be diamonds, or a magic sword, or free scribing of spells. (Even assuming an average of 4th level spells, a full BBB would save 18,000 gp in scribing costs. )

No, I am making exactly the point.

The point is that items of limited usefulness to the general public are worth less under the standard magic pricing rules used in the DMG. Your personal ideas about how the mechanics should work is irrelevant. It is not how the mechanics actually work.

In actuality items with limited usefulness have a price discount. That is the way the rules are desinged. Not only does the BBB have a limited use, but it is a non-transferrable limited use: spells scribed in it are only useful for the scriber, and no one else.

 

[Storm Raven]

First off, in 3E, not all extradimensional spaces are hazardous. Only the interaction between a Portable Hole and a Bag Of Holding is said to be dangerous. If you extend that to include all extradimensional interactions, you're using a house rule.

Umm, wrong. Perhaps you should read the description for, say the spell rope trick. From the SRD:

Note: Creating an extradimensional space within or taking an extradimensional space into an existing extradimensional space is hazardous.

It states that taking an extradimensional space into an extradimensional space is hazardous as a general rule. You should avoid taking things like bags of holding into a rope trick, a Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion or any similar areas.

 

[AuraSeer]

No, I am making exactly the point.

Yeah, this works. Ignore what I'm saying, and repeat yourself. That's a fantastic way to win an argument.

 

[Pielorinho]

Spells can be entered freely, and according to Monte do not cost anything.

Two different things.

-Hyp.

Remind me again who wrote that sentence in the DMG?

Daniel

 

[melkoriii]

Don't forget that once you get a Blessed Book, 45 spells can be entered into the book freely (i.e. no scribing costs). Once you make one of these (probably around 8th level), and if you're in a wizard's guild, you'll probably have access to spells without having to purchase scrolls. Writing the spells would be free and the only opportunity cost is time.

Hypersmerf is right.

There is NO offical rule that says a BB give no scribing cost.

If it was ment to have no scribing cost it would say "spells can be scribed at no cost"

Why do ppl always try and munchkin/look for unbalencing loop holes??

And we wonder why there is so much corruption and hate in this world.