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D&D 5E Wizards planning a change to lycanthropes?

JEB

Hero

Seems they're sort-of playtesting replacing lycanthropes' resistances with regeneration, instead.

Particularly interesting that they had an opportunity to make that update for Curse of Strahd Revamped, released just last year, and hadn't. Almost like they've since started rethinking some aspects of monster design. I wonder why they'd be doing that...?
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Is it just magic weapons or other stuff?

Not to fussed as magic weapon resistance is useless a lot of the time.

Regeneration often is as well so....
 

Hussar

Legend
Really? A PC that only takes damage from magic weapons is a HUGE buff. Most monsters in single digit CR's don't have magic attacks. Sure, there's some with energy attacks, but, they're not exactly common. I just saw what adding Were-rat does to a PC in my campaign and it makes that character FAR too powerful.

Love the regeneration version. Much less powerful but still keeps the flavor.
 

Is there still a connection with silver? Does silver weapon damage cause regeneration to not work for a round? That would actually be an even better way of doing it than a weapon immunity that first level characters with cantrips can bypass. Especially if you actually need silver and magic weapons won't turn off the regeneration.
 

JEB

Hero
Regeneration. The wereraven regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn. If the wereraven takes damage from a silvered weapon or spell, this trait doesn't function at the start of the wereraven's next turn. The wereraven dies only if it starts its turn with 0 hit points and doesn't regenerate.

(I know this isn't what they meant with the wording, but now I'm wondering how one casts a "silvered spell".)
 

The werehares (Dragon #156), weresloths and weredonkeys(asswere) were canon in AD&D, but they can be dreadful if the right author wants to creates a story with a touch of dark comedy. Do you remember the horror movie "Black Sheep"?

The werevernims was published in the web for the 3.5 Ed.

I miss the theriantropes as monster PCs.

I add them the weakeness by the White Wolf's garou: silver allergy, "magic", but also fire and toxic(acid and/or poison)

Theriantropes/werebeasts can be good nemesis of monster PCs if the DM makes a good work.
 



DEFCON 1

Legend
It makes me wonder if the upcoming product involving feywild stuff might have new rules and/or features for PCs gaining or starting with lycanthropy and they are worried about balance issues (especially for PCs at low level)? As we've seen with barbarians while raging, halving their damage can get kind of irritating for a DM after a while because you just have to really pound on them to truly affect them. But now imagine having a party of like 3 barbarians and a couple other PCs? You'd have to overload the battlefield to put enough firepower on there to hurt the barbarians, but you also are running the risk of wiping the other PCs at the same time because they can't take the same sort of heat. That's kind of like what would happen if you had a party where half the PCs had lycanthropy.

At least with Regeneration, that just gives you a small handful of healed HP at the top of each of your turns. Healing say 5 HP at the start of your turn has much less impact on the game's balance than halving the damage on each and every attack you take in a round. Resistance could save yourself from 10, 20, 40 points of damage a round... Regen would only get you back a handful.

Personally whatever the reasons are they won't really affect me, because to me lycanthropy has really been neutered as a concept with the proliferation of Wildshape. Druids don't drop all their clothes and equipment when they turn into animals like weres do, and they essentially have two pools of hit points (their humanoid and their animal forms) to just absorb so much damage (where lycans have one pool and only get Resistance up until the PCs gain magic weapons-- which happens probably at like level 5). A PC who is cursed with lycanthopy to me is just a poor man's Wildshaper. It's not deadly or a problem, it's just annoying.
 

Could it be with a view to more televisual iterations of D&D (eg, movie, tv shows)? Regeneration can be easily shown on screen, with cuts closing up etc; resistance less so, being more of a function of game mechanics/character sheet.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Really? A PC that only takes damage from magic weapons is a HUGE buff. Most monsters in single digit CR's don't have magic attacks. Sure, there's some with energy attacks, but, they're not exactly common. I just saw what adding Were-rat does to a PC in my campaign and it makes that character FAR too powerful.

Love the regeneration version. Much less powerful but still keeps the flavor.

Might have wires crossed I wasn't meaning PC were critters. I may have misread OP.

On PC regeneration or magic weapon immunity hell no. As long as it's optional I don't care though.
 

Could creatures with regeneration powers to be used for "food source" by vampires, undead and other creatures?

In a videogame regeneration for monsters is better if the player need magic or silver weapons.

Can werebeasts be infected by undead bites?

Can a monster hidden among humans be discovered thanks her regeneration? Be injured for the trial to test the fast healing.

In some old stories the werewolves could survive lethal attacks, but they were totally KO for a lot of time. The character believes she is dead but this comes back later wishing revengeance.

Could a evil warlord to use infected werebeasts as cannon fodder in the battlefield? With regeneration then they shouldn't worry too much about firearms.

* Now I was thinking about the lore of the TV-Show "Teen Wolf" as source of inspiration. In Stephen King's "Blue Moon" a werewolf was hurt by fire, and like this later discovered. The fact is in the old stories the lycantrope was recogniced when there were humans by the injuries suffered in the fights with the beast shapes.
 

Reynard

Legend
Related question: why does any sort of magic damage always overcome these kinds of resistances? Doing so not only boosts casters, but makes this stuff almost pointless. I think it should always be specific without concern over whether the source is mundane or magical (like the troll).
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
On Perkins' what do you think bit, The wereravens in ravenloft are pretty involved in things & this probably works better or at worst equal for them.

Seems they're sort-of playtesting replacing lycanthropes' resistances with regeneration, instead.

Particularly interesting that they had an opportunity to make that update for Curse of Strahd Revamped, released just last year, and hadn't. Almost like they've since started rethinking some aspects of monster design. I wonder why they'd be doing that...?
I agree it looks like that, the resistant to nonmagical b/p/s that's not silvered might as well say "resistant to characters who haven't managed to scrape together "100-600 gp(dmg135/xge126) for a magic weapon & groups the GM has declared can't buy one cause the GM couldn't possibly just say resistant till something you don't have or haven't done in that case". regeneration if they don't take x damage has problems on its own in 5e though because it's likely to be met by a party by accident with cantrips.... Every. Single. Round.

I haven't seen the one in candlekeep so hope thy are a little more involved inmaking not regenerate than troll/revenant/etc.

Could creatures with regeneration powers to be used for "food source" by vampires, undead and other creatures?

In a videogame regeneration for monsters is better if the player need magic or silver weapons.

Can werebeasts be infected by undead bites?

Can a monster hidden among humans be discovered thanks her regeneration? Be injured for the trial to test the fast healing.

In some old stories the werewolves could survive lethal attacks, but they were totally KO for a lot of time. The character believes she is dead but this comes back later wishing revengeance.

Could a evil warlord to use infected werebeasts as cannon fodder in the battlefield? With regeneration then they shouldn't worry too much about firearms.

* Now I was thinking about the lore of the TV-Show "Teen Wolf" as source of inspiration. In Stephen King's "Blue Moon" a werewolf was hurt by fire, and like this later discovered. The fact is in the old stories the lycantrope was recogniced when there were humans by the injuries suffered in the fights with the beast shapes.
It's done for the creatures of droaam in the form of "Grist" (ie detoxified troll meat) so maybe but I bet it's not pleasant.
 

Related question: why does any sort of magic damage always overcome these kinds of resistances? Doing so not only boosts casters, but makes this stuff almost pointless. I think it should always be specific without concern over whether the source is mundane or magical (like the troll).
I think it's simple a result of relatively lazy thinking early in D&D's history which has been continued as a trope, rather than any conscious design decision.

Early on, spells were pretty scarce and seen to be important. And obviously casters can't "silver" a spell (where others can swap to a silvered weapon or the like). And on top of that, in fiction, casters tended to be able to harm various creatures of the night. So I think it was essentially seen as "only fair" that spells hit these creatures normally, even if it didn't entirely make sense. Note that the reverse was true somewhat as well. There are some creatures which are immune to certain spells or damage types largely associated with spells that clearly haven't really been thought through either.

As time has gone on, spells have grown more common and in some ways more powerful, certainly more usable, so it's more of a question, and yes, has made it increasingly pointless to use silvered weapons or the like. I do think changing to regeneration rather than resistance or immunity makes sense in part because of that. Regeneration is still an annoyance to casters, where if something isn't resistant or immune to that damage type, or magic damage in general, they didn't have to be concerned.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
I think it's simple a result of relatively lazy thinking early in D&D's history which has been continued as a trope, rather than any conscious design decision.

Early on, spells were pretty scarce and seen to be important. And obviously casters can't "silver" a spell (where others can swap to a silvered weapon or the like). And on top of that, in fiction, casters tended to be able to harm various creatures of the night. So I think it was essentially seen as "only fair" that spells hit these creatures normally, even if it didn't entirely make sense. Note that the reverse was true somewhat as well. There are some creatures which are immune to certain spells or damage types largely associated with spells that clearly haven't really been thought through either.

As time has gone on, spells have grown more common and in some ways more powerful, certainly more usable, so it's more of a question, and yes, has made it increasingly pointless to use silvered weapons or the like. I do think changing to regeneration rather than resistance or immunity makes sense in part because of that. Regeneration is still an annoyance to casters, where if something isn't resistant or immune to that damage type, or magic damage in general, they didn't have to be concerned.
It's worth noting that for a while in 3.x they did flat damage reduction & flat resistances so dr & resist 2-5 would make a sword & board fighter or scorching ray casting caster cry after it applies to each attack to double triple or even quadruple while a rogue barbarian or big boom casting caster would shrug it off as just a small fraction.

You can "silver" a spell though by declaring that the focus item needs to be made with silver/byeshek/flametouched iron/etc. I experimented with it a bit when I started running 5e & didn't find it rewarding or meaningful with the combo of resistance+inverted lfqw scaling present.
 

Related question: why does any sort of magic damage always overcome these kinds of resistances? Doing so not only boosts casters, but makes this stuff almost pointless. I think it should always be specific without concern over whether the source is mundane or magical (like the troll).
I'd be tempted to remove the bit about spells, and leave only silver, so if you actually want to kill a werebeast, you have to get stabby. I might allow specific spells like Moonbeam and similar to prevent the regeneration as well.
 

jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
Almost like they've since started rethinking some aspects of monster design. I wonder why they'd be doing that...?
My immediate thought when I saw that is that they're thinking of ways to make lycanthropes playable without being overpowered. Especially for AL purposes; an infected PC automatically became an NPC if not cured in the Ravenloft AL season.
 

Quartz

Adventurer
For PCs, I don't like the idea of regeneration. It's just too powerful for only one PC to have it. If you want to model 'only killed by silver' then simply make it that if the PC is reduced to 0 HP a failed Death Save Throw has no effect - the PC doesn't pass the DST - unless the wound was inflicted by a silver weapon.
 

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