Wizard's "Sleep" power

[Venthrac]

I have a question about the Wizard's Sleep power.

True or false: When a target falls unconscious because it failed its first save against the Sleep power, it will not awake up when it takes damage.

I believe the answer is "True", because the rule that allows a creature to wake up after taking damage is under the rules for being asleep. The sleep power, however, causes targets to become unconscious, which is a specific status in the rulebook taht mentions no rule about waking up after taking damage.

This seems like a very potent power. With a pair of lucky die roles (his attack, and the monster failing its save), the Wizard could potentially render a powerful opponent completely helpless and susceptible to a coup-de-grace. Better yet, it can hit several enemies at once, and still slows enemies when it misses.

 

[Mort_Q]

This seems to be the consensus.

That said, my Orb Wizard doesn't seem to have any luck when it comes to monsters making their saves.

But yes, if the dice roll in your favor, there is certainly an advantage to be had with Sleep, and it keeps on working as you get to higher levels too.

 

[LowSpine]

Coup de grace doesn't auto kill any more, however, so it is not quite as powerful as you might think. Because of the way saves work they will probably not sleep very long either.

A powerful enemy sleeped will take the damage dished out, on average, and wake up to keep fighting - for how long I don't know, but it isn't a broken cheat spell by any means.

To really benefit from this spell allot of lucky rolls are required.

It is a nice spell, but not as powerful as it might look.

 

[cockroachman3178]

PH pg 263:
When you're asleep, you're unconcious. You wake up if you take damage.....

PH pg 277:
Unconcious
You're helpless
You take a -5 penalty to all defenses
You can't take actions
You fall prone, if possible
You can' flank an enemy

I say, when sleeping (unconcious) you take the first damage that hits you and then you wake up.

 

[erik_the_guy]

I say, when sleeping (unconscious) you take the first damage that hits you and then you wake up.

But you aren't asleep, the sleep spell says nothing about falling asleep, it makes you unconscious.
Sleep is a keyword which accompanies some spells. It is described as being present in spells which cause sleep or unconsciousness. The only spell with the Sleep keyword is sleep, and it causes unconsciousness. If you have a rogue in the party, it's essentially one hit and a failed save = death. If you use a wand to increase the saving throw, even better.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

PH pg 263:
When you're asleep, you're unconcious. You wake up if you take damage.....

PH pg 277:
Unconcious
You're helpless
You take a -5 penalty to all defenses
You can't take actions
You fall prone, if possible
You can' flank an enemy

I say, when sleeping (unconcious) you take the first damage that hits you and then you wake up.

IF Asleep THEN Unconscious =/= IF Unconscious THEN Asleep

 

[Mahlice]

I would assume if it intended for you to wake up on damage it would say '....unconscious (save ends or damage is taken).' but it just says '.....unconscious (save ends).

 

[James McMurray]

But you aren't asleep, the sleep spell says nothing about falling asleep, it makes you unconscious.
Sleep is a keyword which accompanies some spells. It is described as being present in spells which cause sleep or unconsciousness. The only spell with the Sleep keyword is sleep, and it causes unconsciousness. If you have a rogue in the party, it's essentially one hit and a failed save = death. If you use a wand to increase the saving throw, even better.

Even having a rogue doesn't guarantee auto-kill because of the increased hit points of opponents. Against an elite or solo you're almost certain not to kill them automatically. Against a regular minion you might, depending on what it is and what gear you've got.

 

[Venthrac]

Good responses all, thanks. Sleep is a daily power, so it's not something that can really be abused. It has a potentially deadly effect, but only if it hits and if the enemy fails the first save, so again, that's very tempered.

I agree with LowSpine that it isn't quite as unbalanced as I first thought.