D&D General worst (real) advice for DMs

[hawkeyefan]

I think most games would be well served to have some kind of "Retreat" rule as an option that the group can exercise. Because of turn structure and the general flow of the game, retreating is often not nearly as viable as it may be in real world situations. If players knew that retreating was a reliable (or at least somewhat reliable option), it'd likely be considered more often.

Absent such a rule, it's left up to the individual GM and table to determine. And in that case, I think it would not be bad advice at all to say to the GM "You should let retreating work and not get all giddy at the chance to kill off a PC or two as the party withdraws".

 

[CleverNickName]

I think most games would be well served to have some kind of "Retreat" rule as an option that the group can exercise. Because of turn structure and the general flow of the game, retreating is often not nearly as viable as it may be in real world situations. If players knew that retreating was a reliable (or at least somewhat reliable option), it'd likely be considered more often.

Absent such a rule, it's left up to the individual GM and table to determine. And in that case, I think it would not be bad advice at all to say to the GM "You should let retreating work and not get all giddy at the chance to kill off a PC or two as the party withdraws".

This is a good point.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make Retreat a more meaningful, reliable, and viable option in 5E D&D? Because the notion that the party absolutely must "succeed or die trying" on every single encounter is absurd to me. Combat should never be that predictable (or worse, a foregone conclusion.)

 

[Oofta]

This is a good point.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make Retreat a more meaningful, reliable, and viable option in 5E D&D? Because the notion that the party absolutely must "succeed or die trying" on every single encounter is absurd to me. Combat should never be that predictable (or worse, a foregone conclusion.)

If you're willing to take an opportunity attack or two, most of the time it's called bravely run away. Taking an opp attack when you don't need to is generally a bad idea, but under the right circumstances may be the best you can do. There's also caltrops, ball bearings, the grease spell, etc.

Personally if I set a fight the PCs should avoid I give them a fairly easy out. A door they can bar behind them that will slow down a pursuit would be one example. But in general for me it's more likely to be something they can observe from a safe hiding spot.

 

[jmartkdr2]

This is a good point.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make Retreat a more meaningful, reliable, and viable option in 5E D&D? Because the notion that the party absolutely must "succeed or die trying" on every single encounter is absurd to me. Combat should never be that predictable (or worse, a foregone conclusion.)

One option I've seen work is a "fallback line" - if every pc gets off the map in a specific direction (usually where they entered) they successfully flee. This works because there's an endpoint - if the map is infinite, the pcs can only possibly escape if they're faster than the enemy.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think most games would be well served to have some kind of "Retreat" rule as an option that the group can exercise. Because of turn structure and the general flow of the game, retreating is often not nearly as viable as it may be in real world situations. If players knew that retreating was a reliable (or at least somewhat reliable option), it'd likely be considered more often.

Absent such a rule, it's left up to the individual GM and table to determine. And in that case, I think it would not be bad advice at all to say to the GM "You should let retreating work and not get all giddy at the chance to kill off a PC or two as the party withdraws".

There's a lot of elements that contribute to that in fact, including all kinds of issues with movement, footing, perception, morale and the actual purposes of opponents. Frankly, I think something like what you suggest or the rule in 13th Age would serve far more games good than ill. You'd just have to engage with the fact it'd often be fundamentally arbitrary.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If you're willing to take an opportunity attack or two, most of the time it's called bravely run away. Taking an opp attack when you don't need to is generally a bad idea, but under the right circumstances may be the best you can do. There's also caltrops, ball bearings, the grease spell, etc.

Personally if I set a fight the PCs should avoid I give them a fairly easy out. A door they can bar behind them that will slow down a pursuit would be one example. But in general for me it's more likely to be something they can observe from a safe hiding spot.

And this is generally a good way to make the issue mostly moot, but GMs often think they're communicating this better than they are (this is not addressed to you in this last part).

The problem with flight in most cases (especially outside) is that if following the general rules of the game it can sometimes, perhaps often, seem like a loser. Consider a low level (and thus not overly hit point equipped party) in most D&D-oids chased by faster opponent, or those equiped with missile weapons (or both) in terrain without a lot o cover. On the surface, that seems a death sentence.

Of course it also assumes said opponents will continue to pursue until the targets are dead. There are all kinds of reasons for them not to do that, as soon as you get away from extremely simple-minded opponents like undead or oozes.

 

[Thomas Shey]

One option I've seen work is a "fallback line" - if every pc gets off the map in a specific direction (usually where they entered) they successfully flee. This works because there's an endpoint - if the map is infinite, the pcs can only possibly escape if they're faster than the enemy.

That isn't strictly true, but as I noted above it requires paying attention to a lot of things few games give any significant attention to.

 

[Oofta]

And this is generally a good way to make the issue mostly moot, but GMs often think they're communicating this better than they are (this is not addressed to you in this last part).

The problem with flight in most cases (especially outside) is that if following the general rules of the game it can sometimes, perhaps often, seem like a loser. Consider a low level (and thus not overly hit point equipped party) in most D&D-oids chased by faster opponent, or those equiped with missile weapons (or both) in terrain without a lot o cover. On the surface, that seems a death sentence.

Of course it also assumes said opponents will continue to pursue until the targets are dead. There are all kinds of reasons for them not to do that, as soon as you get away from extremely simple-minded opponents like undead or oozes.

Which is why you should always have a dwarf in the party. Just make sure they aren't a monk!

More seriously, if this happens we can potentially go into a chase scene. Well, that and I don't just "hint" that it's an overwhelming force. I flat out tell the players. I know that's not everyone's cup of tea and it could vary for even my groups based on player preferences.

I don't think PC death is interesting. It's never off the table, but most of my players appreciate the long term stories they've been telling that has not been possible in other DM's games.

 

[CleverNickName]

One option I've seen work is a "fallback line" - if every pc gets off the map in a specific direction (usually where they entered) they successfully flee. This works because there's an endpoint - if the map is infinite, the pcs can only possibly escape if they're faster than the enemy.

This is a great idea. I'll have to test this out...I have several roll-out battle maps that can do in a pinch.

 

[Stormonu]

Routs have been the death of many an army.

Though the D&D rules could be kinder to attempts to disengage from a combat. Overall, the biggest obstacle tends to be individual initiative; either you have to risk waiting for the lower initiative characters to withdraw or cover your retreat or take a chance that if you withdraw immediately, the enemy won't just follow you and wail on you. It can quickly become an "F' it, I'll stay and fight" moment.

I'm tempted that should the party decide to book it, to drop initiative and make it some sort of group skill + story check - failure being taking a couple whacks on the way out, or if the result is too poor, the fight starts back up again (possibly in a new area).