WotC and D&D

[Dark Jezter]

Oh, c'mon! Those were options in the thread; and it thread would be silly, useless and very boring if there weren't actually some people who were unhappy with WotC and what they're doing! There's no reason to jump down the throat and start arguing with the first person who's unhappy with WotC, unless secretly you actually do want the thread to turn into hand wringing and teeth gnashing, despite your protestations to the contrary.

I didn't jump down his throat because he was unhappy with WotC. I jumped down his throat because his post was full of bad analogies (D&D turning into a CCG), incorrect statements (WotC releasing all the sourcebooks they could), and villification of a corperation for trying to turn a profit.

 

[KenM]

I and villification of a corperation for trying to turn a profit.

I have no problem with a company trying to make money, thats what they want. But to relase the re-done core rules so soon after they came out with 3rd ed. was wrong, IMO. They waited at least 5 years ti put out second edtion books with different covers, and they did not change much, and 10 years between edtions is a good messure, IMO. Look at GURPS, they have had the same edtion of rules since around 1988, the erratta/ updates can be gotten on the SJ site. They don't screw the players with older edtions of the core rules, if its not broke, don't fix it. SJ just puts out more books the expand it.
I wonder how many Everquest players would be mad if Sony decided to put out a new program that you are required to buy to keep playing EQ. You would need it to access your old character, ect.. You could not play old EQ if you did not get that update, thats what I feel WOTC did with 3.$, force the die hard players to pay for the update, and we all know the SRD does not have everything you want if you are a true DnD player.

 

[Treebore]

I like the game and where it is at, I don't like the company. The fact that they are a business and need to make money doesn't excuse anything.

However, enough people excuse them and buy their product anyway, so no need for them to improve their ethics.

But I still refuse to buy anything 3.5. This isn't because I hate 3.5, I don't. It is the only meaningful message I can send to WOTC-Hasbro. If nothing else I should have lots of money saved up for 4.0 or 4.5, assuming I find them worth buying/using.

 

[KenM]

Double post due to sluggish boards.

 

[Dark Jezter]

I wonder how many Everquest players would be mad if Sony decided to put out a new program that you are required to buy to keep playing EQ. You would need it to access your old character, ect.. You could not play old EQ if you did not get that update, thats what I feel WOTC did with 3.$, force the die hard players to pay for the update,

Bad analogy. Last I checked, there was no rules forcing people to convert to 3.5e. It's not like the gaming police are going to kick down your door and arrest you if you keep playing 3.0. D&D is not an MMORPG.

I also don't buy the "forcing die hard players to pay for the update" argument. Probably because I can't sympathize with people who have a "I don't agree with this rules update, but I'll buy it anyway and complain ceaselessly because I have an obsessive/compulsive need to buy every D&D book released by WotC" mentality.

and we all know the SRD does not have everything you want if you are a true DnD player.

The things not included in the SRD (character generation rules, random encounter generation rules, etc), can still be found in the 3.0 core rulebooks, and are not affected by the 3.5e rules update.

 

[Harlock]

snip... I wonder how many Everquest players would be mad if Sony decided to put out a new program that you are required to buy to keep playing EQ. You would need it to access your old character, ect.. You could not play old EQ if you did not get that update... snip

It's interesting that you should mention this. When EQ came out my computer met the requirements for it. Now, however, my computer cannot run the expansions. I guess your analogy works in that regard. You could shell out 70 or so bucks for some new books and continue to play "current" D&D or shell out a thousand for a new computer that can run EQ expansions for a while... Meh, 3.5 is over and done, get ready for 4th ed. in 2007.

 

[RyanD]

How do you feel about how WotC is handling D&D?

I judge WotC's handling of D&D by three criteria:

1) Do they make products that I, as a gamer, would want to buy?

2) Do they stand up for the hobby and defend it as a positive, healthy, acceptable form of entertainment?

3) Are they managing the overall business to add value to the player network so that it will grow?

My answers to all three questions are "yes", so I gave them the best vote possible.

In the past year, I have bought (or will have received as a gift) 4 D&D products I feel provide excellent value (3.5 core books and Complete Warrior). I will probably buy a 5th (Draconomicon) fairly shortly. If the campaign I was in had taken different directions, I'm sure that I would be interested in other parts of the WotC product release schedule.

I was very pleased with the GE ad, I am aware of and appreciate the efforts Hasbro is making to license the D&D brands in the entertainment industry, and I know that a dedicated team of people goes to work each and every day focused on making D&D popular and successful. I know all of those people personally, and trust them to do the best job they can with the resources at their disposal. I am pleased that D&D is owned by a financially healthy company that has a clear vision for how it intends to stay that way for the long term. I am glad that D&D is supported by 2 very good magazines, several very good computer games, and an excellent organized play program.

I believe that D&D is going to be focused in the future on bringing new players into the network. I have reason to believe that there are products in design that address the current weakness of D&D's introductory products. I believe that WotC and Hasbro have the enlightened view that D&D should be targeted first at teenagers between 12 and 16, and primarily at college age players (and those of us greybeards who keep playing after college), and not at pre-teens or "kids".

I feel that the business is more stable and better focused than it has been in a very long time, and I am confident that I'll continue to see Hasbro & WotC meet my "three tests" for many years to come.

Ryan

 

[Trickstergod]

Trick,

Just admit it, you don't like dragons.

...?

My main points for not being overly interested in the Draconomicon is that, while I certainly like dragons, I look on them more as being rarely encountered entities of god-like (CR 15+) proportions, and thus, would never get much use out of the book. As I mentioned about Wizards of the Coast, their books tend to be dry and filled with mechanics, so unless I actually think I'll use the book, I've little interest in buying it.

Now, should I start running a Dragonlance campaign, I might change my tune on the Draconomicon, but otherwise, a mechanics and table based monster book on a monster that I'll likely only ever include three or possibly less of in any specific campaign I run...well, there's a lot other books out there that make better reads and on things I'll actually use often in a campaign (or could just use as a player resource, for myself or any PC's in a game I run).

But that's neither here nor there in regards to this thread.

 

[Guilberwood]

Even though companies have to make money in order to survive, they have 2 options:

1- Inovate and create new things that people want to buy.
2- Recreate the same old things with a diferent name and a put a in a flashy packet.

IMHO, by releasing 3.5, wotc went the second way. I mean, if you need to improve your sales, make better products, do some research to see wat your customer's want, I don't know, but I'm sure there are a lot of ways to make money without insulting custumer's inteligence.

Wizards has already proved that they can produce awesome products(everyone has it's personal favorites, Draconomicon for me) if they want to, so why sitck to the old material?

Sorry , this is an old complain I had.

My point is, I like the produts Wotc releases, even the updated 3.5 versions like the complete warrior, but I think they'd rather spend theyr time creating orignal stuff.
One other thing, there are very few produtcs from wizards that are not combat-relatade, and even books more centred on custumization have 2 "must-have" charpters : feats and prestige classes.

Come on, who can use all those prestige classes anyway(most sucks)? And what about those feats (get +2 in a and b skills). Most of them we can create by ourselves.

Overall, I like most books(or at least the ideas), just dont like theyr way to handle custumers(WE ARE NOT DUMB) and dont like theyr ALL COMBAT way to create books

Sorry if I seem to ill-humored
I'm normally not like this

See ya

EDIT: TYPO

 

[MerricB]

I feel that the business is more stable and better focused than it has been in a very long time, and I am confident that I'll continue to see Hasbro & WotC meet my "three tests" for many years to come.

Thank you very much for your thoughts, Ryan. They are greatly appreciated - as is the work that you've done that allows WotC to be in this position.

Cheers!