D&D (2024) WotC Fireside Chat: Revised 2024 Player’s Handbook

In this video about the upcoming revised Player’s Handnook, WotC’s Jeremy Crawford and Chris Perkins reveal a few new tidbits.

• The books are near final and almost ready to go to print
• Psionic subclasses such as the Soulknife and Psi Warrior will appear in the core books
• Named spells have art depicting their creators.
• There are new species in the PHB.

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[Steampunkette]

The term supernatural isn't for their understanding. It's for US. The players and DMs who do understand the world only from the framework of Earth, have to understand why things are different.

Imagine you are playing on Faerun and you character picks an apple of a tree and takes a bite, only to be met with the DM asking for a Constitution save vs poison. When asked why, the DM looks point blank and says "apples on Faerun are poisonous. Everyone who lives on Faerun knows that!" Well, I, an earthling, doesn't live on Faerun and I assume apples have the same properties as on earth unless it's explained otherwise. I want the same applied to fighters. Explain why this fighter is able to do things an Earth fighter cannot and the more elaborate the abilities, the more elaborate the rationale.

Do you accept that a Fighter can run 30ft make a total of 6 effective attacks with two weapons and repeat it every 6 seconds indefinitely so long as enemies exist?

How about 5 effective attacks? 4? 3?

What is the in-universe explanation for those things being totally normal for a character to do?

Any CR 1/4 Bandit can throw off 3 every 6 seconds, after all. Bandit Captains can do 4.

How about the fact that 99% of all characters in D&D are physically incapable of Parrying using their weapons? Bandit Captains can do so as a reaction, but for everyone else? Not an option without a class feature.

Why do you accept ALL OF THIS but demand explanations for the apple?

Because of Suspension of Disbelief and Buy In, right?

That's not even getting INTO the "More Elaborate" stuff. Just -baseline- they're superhuman AF. But we accept and tolerate that because, y'know. Suspension of Disbelief.

You have a higher bar for things beyond that? Cool beans. Create reasons or just discard stuff that doesn't make sense for your world. It's -easy-. And if someone else's reasons (IE the Writer of a setting/D&D Book/Whatever) isn't good enough for your suspension of disbelief: Discard it and write your own.

 

[tetrasodium]

I have no idea what you're talking about or what this has to do with whether or not these types of discussions that matter to us matter to the people who make the game.

That ibold bit is obvious. I was talking about players who behave in a certain way, you seem to be making an effort to reframe that to players who behave that way and also participate in online discussion and have not made any effort to clarify why the "participate in online discussion" secondary filter should be applied. That is a very strange leap simply to dismiss what was a stated observation about players who behave in a particular way... perhaps you confused my post with some other post by a different poster?

 

[Charlaquin]

So every fighter is a demigod?

No, just the ones of like… 12th level or so and up.

 

[Clint_L]

I don't think the issue is natural/supernatural powers. Like, I don't particularly worry about the source of my character's powers (unless it's psionic). We are making heroic characters for a game. I think the issue is where the line is drawn, and some folks want martial characters to be way over in Goku territory, and a lot of other folks don't see that as their class fantasy.

Literal Goku territory, with suggestions (in this and other threads) including being able to jump mountains and cleave through boulders.

I suspect quite a lot of us are thinking more in terms of Conan, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones. Badasses, to be sure, and folks who are more than capable, at elite levels, of altering world events. But not gods or superfolk. A class that feels basically mundane, depending on the sub-class choice.

Speaking of which, I also find it odd that this discussion, which we have over and over, tends to focus on the most mundane version of classes like fighter, as if you don't have an option to play an Echo Knight or Arcane Trickster or whatever.

 

[Oofta]

Do you accept that a Fighter can run 30ft make a total of 6 effective attacks with two weapons and repeat it every 6 seconds indefinitely so long as enemies exist?

How about 5 effective attacks? 4? 3?

What is the in-universe explanation for those things being totally normal for a character to do?

Any CR 1/4 Bandit can throw off 3 every 6 seconds, after all. Bandit Captains can do 4.

How about the fact that 99% of all characters in D&D are physically incapable of Parrying using their weapons? Bandit Captains can do so as a reaction, but for everyone else? Not an option without a class feature.

Why do you accept ALL OF THIS but demand explanations for the apple?

Because of Suspension of Disbelief and Buy In, right?

That's not even getting INTO the "More Elaborate" stuff. Just -baseline- they're superhuman AF. But we accept and tolerate that because, y'know. Suspension of Disbelief.

You have a higher bar for things beyond that? Cool beans. Create reasons or just discard stuff that doesn't make sense for your world. It's -easy-. And if someone else's reasons (IE the Writer of a setting/D&D Book/Whatever) isn't good enough for your suspension of disbelief: Discard it and write your own.

There are various videos online of people doing things that I would consider physically impossible. Heck, just watch an old Jackie Chan movie where he's doing all of his own stunts. Have you ever seen what Simone Biles the gymnast can do? It looks like she defies physics, it's pretty amazing. On the other hand I don't expect D&D to be particularly realistic. They shoot for action movie logic unless magic is involved. As far as how much you can do in 6 seconds, I just explain that 6 seconds is an average and not to get too concerned about pulling out a stopwatch. YMMV of course.

What I don't want is Celtic, Greek demigod, or Paul Bunyan mythic. It's just never been the imagery supported by D&D, with the exception to a degree with 4E. I don't want to play Anime the TTRPG, I want to play D&D,

 

[Neonchameleon]

So every fighter is a demigod?

If wizards are allowed to be based on demigods (as they explicitly were) I see no reason why not.

If on the other hand we restrict wizards and clerics to the realistic and let them only do what stage conjurers can then sure, fighters should be realistic.

 

[Charlaquin]

It feels like it depends on the world they're in. Do lots of stories (maybe Arthurian, Tolkien, Lord Darcy, Earthsea, etc...) have magic but it is called out as magic even if it is a well-known part of their world.

See, I would argue that Tolkien is a great example of a setting where things that are beyond mundane happen and aren’t necessarily magical. Elven crafts do things we would consider miraculous but to elves is just… good craftsmanship. Hobbits are generally not considered magical folk, but they can travel completely silently when they’re of a mind to, and that’s just part of being a hobbit. Ordinary humans grow to like 9 feet tall, and it may not be common but it’s still just a thing that happens. It’s a world inundated by “magic” by our standards, yet there are exactly 5 “wizards” in it.

In some is magic just assumed and not special? (the Marvel Thor stories anywhere in the nine-realms except midgard?). In others is it an outside and scary thing? (movies like Poltergeist).
Similarly, does how cool it is depend on the world the story is in? Does Little John spinning his quarterstaff fast enough to make a vortex work in a bugs bunny cartoon but not something going for an accentuated medieval England with magic? Does Robin splitting arrows easily work in both? Does easily jumping a 30' look like one thing when Batman does it vs. having Kojak or Magnum P.I. do it?

I mean, yeah, it definitely depends on the story. But, like, D&D is a game where PC spellcasters can call down meteors, create pocket dimensions, and return the dead to life. If non-magical people are also going to be playable in the same game, they need to be able to do impossible things too. High level fighters need to be able to perform “supernatural” feats, and if they can’t do so without magic, then they aren’t really fighters anymore; they’re just wizards with swords.

 

[Clint_L]

If wizards are allowed to be based on demigods (as they explicitly were) I see no reason why not.

If on the other hand we restrict wizards and clerics to the realistic and let them only do what stage conjurers can then sure, fighters should be realistic.

But fighters aren't realistic. They can go toe-to-toe with dragons and other fantastical monsters.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't think the issue is natural/supernatural powers. Like, I don't particularly worry about the source of my character's powers (unless it's psionic). We are making heroic characters for a game. I think the issue is where the line is drawn, and some folks want martial characters to be way over in Goku territory, and a lot of other folks don't see that as their class fantasy.

Literal Goku territory, with suggestions (in this and other threads) including being able to jump mountains and cleave through boulders.

I suspect quite a lot of us are thinking more in terms of Conan, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones. Badasses, to be sure, and folks who are more than capable, at elite levels, of altering world events. But not gods or superfolk. A class that feels basically mundane, depending on the sub-class choice.

Speaking of which, I also find it odd that this discussion, which we have over and over, tends to focus on the most mundane version of classes like fighter, as if you don't have an option to play an Echo Knight or Arcane Trickster or whatever.

If the game is going to have any semblance of balance, high level fighters need Goku levels of power to keep up with high-level casters. If you want a more grounded setting, you need to cap caster’s’ capabilities as well as martials. Something like E6 works well for that.

 

[Charlaquin]

But fighters aren't realistic. They can go toe-to-toe with dragons and other fantastical monsters.

The problem is fighters are capped at going toe-to-toe with dragons, while Wizards reach the point of being able to call in an orbital strike on them from the safety of a comfy Demiplane.