D&D 4E WotC Greg: 4E Campaign Report Part 2

[WotC_GregB]

Thanks for taking the time out to clarify. Interesting comment about the roles performing more strictly as defined when they're put up against it. That's something you can't really account for just looking at the maths. In hindsight I suppose it does make sense that when you're under pressure you stick to your strengths as they will generally be your best odds.

Exactly. The point in case being—the rogue pretty much got smashed in one round because he was up in the angel's face. In designing the encounter, I into account the likelihood that the characters would at least earn the help of the Bear Queen (the NPC chimera) and thus have a high hp creature to soak up some of the damage if the paladin died or retreated. This allowed them to continue to fulfill there roles. One thing I've noticed in my other game is that characters seem to take on subroles in a way. Our dragonborn warlord, although a leader by role, acts as a defender when times get tough. My genasi swordmage becomes more striker like when faced with a tough fight. Again, tough fights seem to flesh out these nuances.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Hmmm... Makes me wonder how "Hybrids" like the Druid, where they will go in tough fights. Will they still meld their different types, or will they pick a specific style.

Also, NPC Chimera = Awesome. I am assuming this was with monster-stats? How does that fair using a monster as an NPC-party member?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Exactly. The point in case being—the rogue pretty much got smashed in one round because he was up in the angel's face.

As the guy playing a very reckless rogue in my own 4E playtest group, I can attest to the fact that when the rogue is the first guy to charge into the fray, he is also indeed usually the first guy to wind up on his back with a monster chewing on his larynx.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

The idea that the rules serve the story, rather than the story being constricted by the rules is wonderful news for me. It should really help the style of game that I enjoy.

 

[Dausuul]

My group defeated it, and I saw another do it.

DM screwed up a couple things (hit someone extra with a breath weapon twice that he shouldn't have, but also let the wizard's Light spell dispel the zone of darkness...), but only had one guy unconscious (the fighter).

The group I was running for last night (in Raiders of Oakhurst) got it down to 67 hit points. I made a couple of mistakes, like forgetting to use its tail slap the first time somebody missed it, and not requiring unconscious characters to spend a move action to stand up again, which may have contributed, but even so I have no doubt they would have brought it down to bloodied easily. And their dice were not rolling well at all--the wizard kept rolling 2s on his magic missiles.

(I did allow the use of Light to dispel the darkness, but I required the wizard to make an Int check versus the dragon's Will. That seemed like a reasonable way to handle it.)

 

[vagabundo]

(I did allow the use of Light to dispel the darkness, but I required the wizard to make an Int check versus the dragon's Will. That seemed like a reasonable way to handle it.)

Hmm nice, battle of arcane wills.

 

[jodyjohnson]

The way the math works against higher challenges your best outcome is a grindfest (and probably the result of bad tactics/rolls on the DM side and good tactics/rolls on the PC side).
Any outcome less than that is likely a cascading TPK.

This probably goes the other way too where the party might fight a large number of lower level brutes and also have it feel like a grindfest - and the brutes might win.

 

[EATherrian]

I'll probably be banning death in any campaign I run. This has the handy effect of making raise dead unnecessary.

I always just made the God of Death in my world very greedy. He wouldn't give souls back without a great price. In game terms if the PCs wanted to Raise Dead or Resurrect someone it generally involved doing a quest for that God's temple. I think each world should have its own Resurrection rules. I just like mine toned down, it removes the "why didn't they just resurrect x?" questions.

 

[EATherrian]

Its partly because angels in 3e (and earlier editions) were the servants of Good (only) Gods. In 4e, all gods have angels as far as I understand it. Its an Astral Sea type o' thing.

Devils, in the 4e cosmology, are actually all fallen servants of one particular god (essentially anti-angels (or exarchs?))

Demons don't even enter into this equation so far as I understand it.

c.i.d.

That's one of the few things I like about 4th Editions fluff. I always had that angels (or servitors as I called them to remove the 'good' connotations) served all of the gods. Some gods might have extra or separate servitors, but any god could have archons, planetars, etc. It took some tweaking, but worked.

 

[EATherrian]

As the guy playing a very reckless rogue in my own 4E playtest group, I can attest to the fact that when the rogue is the first guy to charge into the fray, he is also indeed usually the first guy to wind up on his back with a monster chewing on his larynx.

That's what you get for wearing your cool leather duds. You need to let the tin can get up there and you get behind the monster. What rogue goes in straight? As an aside, I'm glad to see they are really stretching the system to see how it works and hopefully where it breaks. Good Q&A is where great games are made.