WotC WotC in a small decline as revenue drops by 16% as Hasbro shares hit a new 52-week low

[Zardnaar]

Recent D&D product has sucked and doesn't look like it's getting better.

And yeah overpriced proxy cards for mtg. I don't even play magic and still get that on YouTube/ know the basics.

 

[bedir than]

Tabletop D&D was stable, during the pseudo-recession while most physical retail went down or dramatically raised prices.

Fans on ENWorld react by blaming the quality of book releases leading to down sales (that didn't happen)

 

[Charlaquin]

Magic took a big one on the chin with the announcement of their $1000 non-play-legal randomized collector cards product for their 30th anniversary; an item so designed to cater to whales and speculators several prominent MTG community members refuse to buy and/or sell it.

It’s a truly bizarre product because while on its face “$1,000 for 60 randomized collector’s items that can’t be played with in any sanctioned format” sounds like it’s specifically targeted at whales and speculators… It’s also entirely reprints, only a few of which are of cards with any real value. Anyone who would be willing and able to drop big money on a product like this would get more bang for their buck simply buying the actual cards that these are based on off the secondary market.

 

[Remathilis]

It’s a truly bizarre product because while on its face “$1,000 for 60 randomized collector’s items that can’t be played with in any sanctioned format” sounds like it’s specifically targeted at whales and speculators… It’s also entirely reprints, only a few of which are of cards with any real value. Anyone who would be willing and able to drop big money on a product like this would get more bang for their buck simply buying the actual cards that these are based on off the secondary market.

It's essential wildly overpriced proxy cards. But with WotC's stubborn adherence to the Reserve List, I guess saying "we're going to make cards you can't use in official gaming and at a price point that is unfeasible for most players" was the only way they were ever going to get Black Lotus on a piece of rectangular cardboard again...

 

[Cadence]

It’s a truly bizarre product because while on its face “$1,000 for 60 randomized collector’s items that can’t be played with in any sanctioned format” sounds like it’s specifically targeted at whales and speculators… It’s also entirely reprints, only a few of which are of cards with any real value. Anyone who would be willing and able to drop big money on a product like this would get more bang for their buck simply buying the actual cards that these are based on off the secondary market.

The collectors and international collectors editions of some of the reserved list cards are pretty pricy because some folks want them in black border. (Taiga for $250+, Emerald Mox $1000+ The Best Marketplace for Collectible Trading Card Games and Comic Books ).

Those sets are allowed in the non-WotC format Old School ( Old School Magic 93-94 Rules – Eternal Central ).

 

[Cadence]

It's essential wildly overpriced proxy cards. But with WotC's stubborn adherence to the Reserve List, I guess saying "we're going to make cards you can't use in official gaming and at a price point that is unfeasible for most players" was the only way they were ever going to get Black Lotus on a piece of rectangular cardboard again...

People have been asking for gold bordered or not-legal backed ones for years, and Maro kept saying it wasn't going to happen. At least this opens the door for cheaper ones down the road because they don't have the RL excuse anymore.

 

[Jahydin]

It's been awhile since I've bought product too, and I used to buy absolutely everything.

Which is okay, because I've been spending a truckload of money on Free League and OSR in general just for the creativity and ambition.

Pathfinder 2E as well. My small group is having a blast with all the crunchy rules and latest evil aligned Adventure Path.

Oh, and LevelUp of course. Got my friend's group to convert over as well. Yay! Wishful thinking, but would be cool to see more people pick it up if One D&D doesn't deliver.

 

[Charlaquin]

The collectors and international collectors editions of some of the reserved list cards are pretty pricy because some folks want them in black border. (Taiga for $250+, Emerald Mox $1000+ The Best Marketplace for Collectible Trading Card Games and Comic Books ).

Those sets are allowed in the non-WotC format Old School ( Old School Magic 93-94 Rules – Eternal Central ).

Right, but at &1,000 for 4 packs, the expected value per pack is crap. Obviously some folks will get lucky and crack some big money cards, but on average, it’s just not going to be better value than buying the real cards. Unless you insist on like very highly-graded Beta copies or whatever, but I don’t see anyone who wants that being satisfied with a proxy printed in 2022 as an alternative anyway.

 

[Charlaquin]

People have been asking for gold bordered or not-legal backed ones for years, and Maro kept saying it wasn't going to happen. At least this opens the door for cheaper ones down the road because they don't have the RL excuse anymore.

But I think if they were going to do that, they would have here. The price point on 30th anniversary edition signals that they want to keep Power expensive, even if it’s non-tournament-legal versions.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I have to admit I haven't bought much from WotC lately, not because I'm mad at them but they just haven't released anything worth buying.

This hasn't been true pretty much from the start of 5e IME. The release schedule's been pretty empty.

The Wild Beyond The Witchlight - Sounds cool, but is a campaign, so no sale.
Fizban's Treasury of Dragons - Maybe I'm playing the wrong game, but I've never been keen on dragons, and nothing in it seemed exciting. I think that's first sourcebook I've skipped in 5E (rather than a setting book or adventure).
Strixhaven - Is a campaign with a relatively sketched-out setting that has a massive tonal conflict with the much edgier/cool MtG take on the same setting. Again not buying campaigns.
Call of the Netherdeep - Sounds cool, but it's a campaign, so no sale.
Journeys Through The Radiant Citadel - Cute but I need a bunch of short but extremely heavily themed and location-specific adventures like I need a hole in the head.
Spelljammer - A wildly underdetailed, overpriced very straight take on a setting I was only ever moderately keen on. Custom designed to avoid me buying it!

If you aren't buying campaign books and you aren't buying either adventure collections or campaigns then to be blunt what are you buying? Setting books? (Of those I have five - and regret only one).

Putting things into perspective WotC have released their setting books at the rate of one per year. If you haven't bought one in the past year that's only one fewer sale. They've released adventure books at an average of two per year. Me, I've got all three of those - and the only earlier one I've got is Curse of Strahd. (Dragon Heist, as an adventure with no non-polymorphed dragons and no heist I find offensive).

I did get MotM though, but that's it. Normally I'd have spent a lot more.

On what? You wouldn't have bought the big adventures like SKT or Rise of Tiamat. In a normal year you might have bought one more setting book like van Richtens' Guide or the Eberron Explorer's Guide. But you wouldn't have spent much more than that because you wouldn't have had anything to spend on.

I'm therefore going to suggest the only reason you didn't spend as much as you normally do is that the Spelljammer release is actively a poor product.

Meanwhile WotC are trying to avoid the Diminishing Returns trap. Fundamentally some DMs are insatiable and will buy Forgotten Realms Supplement #23 - but most of them are satiable at some point or other and you essentially can't sell almost indistinguishable stuff to the same people.

They've sold the Realms fans SCAG and a fair amount of Waterdeep stuff - and the further Realms stuff never sold as well. They've sold the Eberron stuff. And for fans of an only slightly different flavour of fantasy they've sold the Critical Role setting. So the last four campaign settings have all been about widening the net for something different in tone to D&D fantasy. You have:

• Mythic Odysseys of Theros - very much Greek Myth and odyssey inspired. Very different from Waterdeep or SCAG
• Van Richten's Guide for running horror games
• Strixhaven for Undergraduate Harry Potter
• Spelljammer for jammin' spells (or rather for space piracy and trading)
• Forthcoming Dragonlance to get to the Giant Good vs Evil that Eberron doesn't do and the Realms has drifted away from if it really does

The point of all these is that they are pretty different from the Forgotten Realms and Eberron - so although the market overlaps it is not the same. Because if you just do the same then people get satiated. Likewise the adventures - I'd run The Wild Beyond the Witchlight with a very different group to Curse of Strahd because it's very different in tone. And Radiant Citadel again is fitting a different niche in when you'd run it and for who.

The only book I'd say that is focusing on the market already covered is Fizban's - and I think it was a trial balloon to see if things like updated versions of the classic I, Tyrant that focuses exclusively on Beholders were worth publishing as another expansion. And the answer I suspect is no.

But fundamentally the current WotC books don't absolutely nail the market covered by the previous WotC books. If they were to then WotC would sell fewer of them than the previous ones. But if they hook one person in with e.g. a Witchlight campaign because wandering through fey realms is what is cool to them then that's one person who might buy an entire collection of books. They're trying to fish in neighbouring waters.

 

[MGibster]

That makes some sense. Dark Alliance was an absolute trashfire. I'm surprised they even released it. I'd have been very tempted to just halt development and make it a full tax write-off.

What? If it was a Bat Woman movie, sure, but cancel a video game? Actually, now that you mention it, I don't even remember hearing about this game.

 

[darjr]

What? If it was a Bat Woman movie, sure, but cancel a video game? Actually, now that you mention it, I don't even remember hearing about this game.

It was front page when it was announced in 2019.

WotC - Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance Video Game Announcement Trailer

An announcement trailer for Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance premiered at The Game Awards on Thursday evening. Developed by Tuque Games, the studio acquired earlier this year by Wizards of the Coast, the game will be a sequel of sorts in the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance action-RPG series for...

www.enworld.org

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have to admit I haven't bought much from WotC lately, not because I'm mad at them but they just haven't released anything worth buying.

The Wild Beyond The Witchlight - Sounds cool, but is a campaign, so no sale.
Fizban's Treasury of Dragons - Maybe I'm playing the wrong game, but I've never been keen on dragons, and nothing in it seemed exciting. I think that's first sourcebook I've skipped in 5E (rather than a setting book or adventure).
Strixhaven - Is a campaign with a relatively sketched-out setting that has a massive tonal conflict with the much edgier/cool MtG take on the same setting. Again not buying campaigns.
Call of the Netherdeep - Sounds cool, but it's a campaign, so no sale.
Journeys Through The Radiant Citadel - Cute but I need a bunch of short but extremely heavily themed and location-specific adventures like I need a hole in the head.
Spelljammer - A wildly underdetailed, overpriced very straight take on a setting I was only ever moderately keen on. Custom designed to avoid me buying it!

I did get MotM though, but that's it. Normally I'd have spent a lot more. What's interesting to me is, via Beyond, I can see the purchases of the other DMs I play with via Beyond/Roll 20, and one of them bought The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and another one bought MotM, but that's it. That's unusual for those three. One of them habitually buys virtually every setting and adventure book, and the other buys most settings, but neither bought anything.

I might buy Dragonlance, but like, every time the designer does an interview they seem to manage to make it slightly less attractive. I wasn't expecting some hardline trad Dragonlance, but it sounds awfully like they're going for generic fantasy with a vague DL motif (even by DL's low standards!), which is honestly a bit weird. So I'm very much awaiting reviews from people who aren't the kind of fan-reviewers who only give WotC print products between 3.5 and 5 stars lol.

I feel the same. Netherlight was a gift I barely cracked. Fizban's was ultimately an error in judgement on my part, and the rest managed to un-sell me one way or another.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I stopped buying 5th Ed books because I find them to be poor products.

I miss honest to god sourcebooks. Millions of ideas for adventures and fun reads to boot.

Now you get 10 pages of basic lore and a half asses adventure that need ed a rewrite or 2.

I mean I was excited for the Icewind Dale adventure and that was like 2 adventures spliced together and each made by a committee that never talked to each other.

Most of the published adventures they put out just fall apart about halfway to 2/3rds through.

 

[Micah Sweet]

"Hasbro cites that much of the drop is due to sizable delays to their Magic: the Gathering releases. Delays and other “supply chain challenges” hit pretty hard. And alongside that, bigger releases “and entertainment content” are scheduled for the fourth quarter as opposed to the third quarter."

D&D, Magic: The Gathering Face a $60m Revenue Drop in Q3

Hasbro's third quarter finances are in; both D&D and Magic: the Gathering face sizable dowturn in Q3 2022. But even so, Hasbro is hopeful.

www.belloflostsouls.net

That could be true, but it is also an excellent possible excuse as they wouldn't be to blame in that case.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's been awhile since I've bought product too, and I used to buy absolutely everything.

Which is okay, because I've been spending a truckload of money on Free League and OSR in general just for the creativity and ambition.

Pathfinder 2E as well. My small group is having a blast with all the crunchy rules and latest evil aligned Adventure Path.

Oh, and LevelUp of course. Got my friend's group to convert over as well. Yay! Wishful thinking, but would be cool to see more people pick it up if One D&D doesn't deliver.

That's the dream...

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Recent D&D product has sucked and doesn't look like it's getting better.

And yeah overpriced proxy cards for mtg. I don't even play magic and still get that on YouTube/ know the basics.

A bunch of the recent D&D products have been some of my favorites.

 

[Micah Sweet]

A bunch of the recent D&D products have been some of my favorites.

Every book is someone's favorite. I'm more on @Zardnaar 's side on this one, but I'm sure the new books have their fans too.

 

[Stormonu]

I feel the same. Netherlight was a gift I barely cracked. Fizban's was ultimately an error in judgement on my part, and the rest managed to un-sell me one way or another.

Didn't pick up Netherlight (no interest in CR, it's actually a turn-off) and I agree on Fizban's. I got it as a Christmas present and haven't used it once. However, I think Tasha's was the book that started making me reconsider my D&D purchases.

Spelljammer was something I was definitely looking forward to, but it's anemic content now has me somewhat leery of getting more campaign settings. I have to admit I am picking up Dragonlance (I just couldn't resist a 5E version, and the Soth cover couldn't be passed up), but beyond that it's a very "wait and see" prospect, especially with what I'm seeing them do with OneD&D.

I suspect I'm not alone in watching all this going forward. With the pandemic out of the way and people starting to turn back to their old ways, I suspect they'll see a flat-lining ahead.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Didn't pick up Netherlight (no interest in CR, it's actually a turn-off) and I agree on Fizban's. I got it as a Christmas present and haven't used it once. However, I think Tasha's was the book that started making me reconsider my D&D purchases.

Spelljammer was something I was definitely looking forward to, but it's anemic content now has me somewhat leery of getting more campaign settings. I have to admit I am picking up Dragonlance (I just couldn't resist a 5E version, and the Soth cover couldn't be passed up), but beyond that it's a very "wait and see" prospect, especially with what I'm seeing them do with OneD&D.

I suspect I'm not alone in watching all this going forward. With the pandemic out of the way and people starting to turn back to their old ways, I suspect they'll see a flat-lining ahead.

I think I actually meant Witchlight; never actually bought Netherlight.

Tasha's is definitely the dividing line for me as well. The WotC world for me is now BT and AT.