Dragonlance WotC Officially Confirms Takhisis and Tiamat Are The Same

It's been an issue in dispute for decades, over various editions of D&D, but WotC has officially confirmed that - at least in 5E - Dragonlance's Takhisis is, indeed, currently Tiamat. In previous editions, Tiamat has varied from being a big dragon to a minor goddess, while Takhisis has been a greater god on Krynn. At times they've been the same entity, and at others different entities. Today, WotC is putting its foot down and saying that Takhisis and Tiamat are, indeed, the same being.



Of course, this is not an opinion universally held. Dragonlance co-creator Margaret Weis emphatically stated that "TAKHISIS IS NOT TIAMAT, DAMN IT!"

Fizban's Treasuryof Dragons confirms that the beings echo across various settings.

D&D 5E - Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!

According to WotC's James Wyatt, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons introduces a new cosmology for dragon gods, where the same beings, including Fizban, echo across various D&D campaign settings with alternate versions of themselves (presumably like Paladine/Bahamut, or Takhisis/Tiamat). Also... the...

www.enworld.org

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Totally off subject, but the Inanna - Ishtar - Astarte - Aphrodite - Venus progression is really fascinating as it's one of the few times in history you can clearly see a deity progress and change as they gain new worshipers and are adopted by new cultures. You can even see when the goddess, originally of love and war, loses the war aspect. When the Phoenician Astarte was adopted by the Greeks as Aphrodite, she was worshiped on Cythera first, which was Spartan territory. The Spartans were fine with her being an aspect of both love and war, and worshiped her as Aphrodite Areia, Aphrodite the Warlike. But the rest of the Greeks were like "Nope, we like our goddesses either sexy or warlike, you can't combine the two." So while Athena and Artemis could be goddesses with combative sides, they had to be chaste, while Aphrodite, being a goddess with a sexual aspect, had to lose the warlike side for the other Greeks...

And yet, still didn't stop Aphrodite from essentially being the root cause for the entire Trojan War cycle...

OSP Red: "You can take the war out of the goddess, but you can't take the goddess out of the war."

Interestingly Ares as the god of war did not have to chaste and he bedded Aphrodite.

Or, seemingly keep the goddess and War from getting together every chance they got...

 

[Morrus]

In my headcanon, Tiamat was always the lesser copy of Takhisis. It seems like the god would be the original and the demon-dragon the echo.

Yeah, they always seemed to be at very different power levels. Tiamat is a chromatic dragon (maybe a minor deity?), but Takhisis is a greater god - the greater god of evil, no less. Obviously that's changed throughout decades and editions.

 

[Umbran]

If they didn't want them equated, they probably ought to have done a little more than file the serial numbers off Tiamat and Bahamut.

That said, I don't usually use planar shenanigans to cross between established worlds - If I'm running a game in Krynn, Tiamat is not going to get mentioned anyway, and if I am running a game elsewhere, Takhisis isn't going to be mentioned.

 

[Umbran]

And yet, still didn't stop Aphrodite from essentially being the root cause for the entire Trojan War cycle...

Eris is very, very happy you view it that way. It makes her next work so much easier...

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Eris is very, very happy you view it that way. It makes her next work so much easier...

Eris was just out to cause some mischief. Aphrodite is the one who caught the ball and decided to make it everyone's problem.

 

[Umbran]

Eris was just out to cause some mischief.

That is one way to view it. And again, she'll be happy you take it.

Another way to view it is that "mischief" to a Greek god is not light hearted Bart Simpson shenanigans...

Spoiler: A story of her mischief including some very bad things

"Another story of Eris includes Hera, and the love of Polytekhnos and Aedon. They claimed to love each other more than Hera and Zeus were in love. This angered Hera, so she sent Eris to wreak discord upon them. Polytekhnos was finishing off a chariot board, and Aedon a web she had been weaving. Eris said to them, "Whosoever finishes thine task last shall have to present the other with a female servant!" Aedon won. But Polytekhnos was not happy by his defeat, so he came to Khelidon, Aedon's sister, and raped her. He then disguised her as a slave, presenting her to Aedon. When Aedon discovered this was indeed her sister, she chopped up Polytekhnos's son and fed him to Polytekhnos. The gods were not pleased, so they turned them all into birds."

So, less "mischief" more "bloody revenge".

 

[dave2008]

Eris was just out to cause some mischief. Aphrodite is the one who caught the ball and decided to make it everyone's problem.

Actually, the goddess and the gods had almost nothing to do with the Trojan War. Foolish mortals just like to blame other people for their issues.

 

[dave2008]

There are some interesting cosmological implications by saying that Takhisis IS Tiamat -- especially if we are holding Tiamat in her current 5E incarnation.

The first and most obvious is that Takhisis, then, is not a goddess at all but a powerful demon lord -- but not even the most powerful demon lord.

You lost me here. Why, if Tiamat = Takhisis does that make her a demon lord. I am not following that logic at all. Can you clarify?

 

[delericho]

IMO, Tiamat and Bahamut work better if they're just dragons - the biggest and most powerful of all dragons, but not divine. (And, likewise, Lolth is better as a demon than a goddess.) In which case, Takhisis would be a different entity (and Paladine likewise).

But, obviously, WotC have taken a different view.

Ultimately, though, I tend to the same view as @Umbran described up-thread: If I'm running Dragonlance then there is only Takhisis; if I'm running Realms there is only Tiamat. In theory, there might be an issue if I'm running Planescape (which I won't be - not a fan), or Spelljammer... but if I'm running Spelljammer then the campaign isn't going to the planes anyway so it will be ambiguous at best.

 

[Azzy]

I feel like this conversation has been had before.

Much as I hate it (and the Great Wheel being forced on all settings, too), this shipped sailed in 2e long ago.