MGibster
Legend
I do want to be careful and respect the religious beliefs of others. The problem comes when I feel as though I have just as much a claim to the past as they do.
D&D 5E WOTC Possibly Removing "Druids" for Religious/Cultural Sensitivity Reasons
- Thread starter The Myopic Sniper
- Start date
Dire Bare
Legend
Yes, the original article and OP is clickbait and chum.
But the overall discussion is important. The words we use matter, and we should strive to avoid using words that cause others harm.
Upthread, someone talked about appropriating from the past . . . that doesn't make any sense. You can't harm the people of the past, they're dead. What is important to consider is appropriating from cultures other than your own, past or present, in a way that will harm people today.
So, while the classic Egyptian pantheon is from the past, it is a part of Egyptian culture today, even if these gods are not actively worshipped. Are Egyptians, regardless of their faith, tired of Westerners taking their past out of context and trivializing it in various ways, including a popular roleplaying game? I don't know the answer to that, but if so . . . then WotC is right to ditch the Egyptian pantheon in the game.
Shaman needs to go. It's a colonialist term that takes a diverse set of religious practices across the globe and tries to simplify them into a single concept. The term was specific to indigenous peoples in Siberia, but I don't know if they still exist culturally and if they do, do they care about the misappropriation of the term? But I do know that many folks whose practices are lumped into shamanism are not fond of the word.
Druid? Modern neopagan druids don't own the term any more or any less than the fantasy genre. I'm not worried about offending ancient druids from the past (again, they're dead), and I'm not really concerned about offending other modern folks who've appropriated the term, just as it has been for gaming and fantasy. And, is there a hue and cry from modern neopagans over the use of the word? Perhaps, I don't know.
There is no clear line between when it is okay to appropriate a term and when it isn't. It's messy, confusing, and not everyone will agree term-by-term. But the conversations are important to have in good faith, and to not be shut down by selfish folks who just don't want to give up their use of a word, or who want to ignore the real harm sometimes done by insensitive (or ignorant) cultural appropriation.
But the overall discussion is important. The words we use matter, and we should strive to avoid using words that cause others harm.
Upthread, someone talked about appropriating from the past . . . that doesn't make any sense. You can't harm the people of the past, they're dead. What is important to consider is appropriating from cultures other than your own, past or present, in a way that will harm people today.
So, while the classic Egyptian pantheon is from the past, it is a part of Egyptian culture today, even if these gods are not actively worshipped. Are Egyptians, regardless of their faith, tired of Westerners taking their past out of context and trivializing it in various ways, including a popular roleplaying game? I don't know the answer to that, but if so . . . then WotC is right to ditch the Egyptian pantheon in the game.
Shaman needs to go. It's a colonialist term that takes a diverse set of religious practices across the globe and tries to simplify them into a single concept. The term was specific to indigenous peoples in Siberia, but I don't know if they still exist culturally and if they do, do they care about the misappropriation of the term? But I do know that many folks whose practices are lumped into shamanism are not fond of the word.
Druid? Modern neopagan druids don't own the term any more or any less than the fantasy genre. I'm not worried about offending ancient druids from the past (again, they're dead), and I'm not really concerned about offending other modern folks who've appropriated the term, just as it has been for gaming and fantasy. And, is there a hue and cry from modern neopagans over the use of the word? Perhaps, I don't know.
There is no clear line between when it is okay to appropriate a term and when it isn't. It's messy, confusing, and not everyone will agree term-by-term. But the conversations are important to have in good faith, and to not be shut down by selfish folks who just don't want to give up their use of a word, or who want to ignore the real harm sometimes done by insensitive (or ignorant) cultural appropriation.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
This post got a couple of laughs but it's no joke here; back in the day I heard many a complaint about just that: that "Fighting Man" was a sexist name for the class.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I have spent a great deal of time in Egypt. I would be shocked to learn that any modern Egyptians feel this way. It's an incredibly religious country, but those religions are two modern ones. They're intensely proud of their history and culture and of being the heirs to one of the oldest civilizations on Earth. But the ancient gods are something they aggressively commercialize themselves, with tourism being the country's biggest industry.
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MGibster
Legend
I've never been to Egypt, but a lot of my anthropology courses as an undergrad were also part of the Middle Eastern studies program, and I was surpised to learn that Egyptians had some pretty strong opinions about their ancient past. Maybe the fact that the momuments are right there and their past is actually an important part of their economy has something to do with it. I know ancient alien theories tend to piss them off and more recently they weren't happy with a Netflix documentary, but I haven't heard anything about American Gods, role playing games, or Moon Knight. The Greeks sometimes have strong opinions as well and were not happy with Disney's version of Hercules.
In protest of the absolute nothing that will happen to the Druid, I recommend we all drink White Russians, heretofore named "The Druid Abides."
Snarf's "Druid Abides" Cocktail
Ingredients
Bottle of vodka
Bottle of Kahlúa
Some heavy cream
Steps
1. Take a long pull from the vodka bottle.
2. Get the heavy cream from the fridge. Think about how long it's been in there.
3. Take another pull from the vodka bottle.
4. Grab a rocks glass.
5. Wait, when did you buy that cream? Was it before the pandemic?
6. Take another pull from the vodka bottle.
7. Get some ice while staring down the cream ... did it move?
8. That vodka isn't going to drink itself, might as well help it!
9. Put the ice in the rocks glass.
10. Take another looooooong pull from the vodka bottle.
11. Yeah, it was before the pandemic. Maybe you bought it with the D&D Next Playtest?
12. Take another pull ... oh, no, that was the whole bottle.
13. Look in the liquor cabinet. That was the last of the vodka. What pairs well with expired cream ... gin?
14. Drink some gin. Sure! That'll do it!
15. Grab the bottle of Kahlúa.
16. Open the bottle and smell the Kahlúa ... not right.
17. Look at the bottle again ... there's a K... dang it, you don't have any Kahlúa, this is Kraken Rum.
18. WHY NOT?
19. Take another slug of gin.
20. Carefully pour out the cream.
21. When the cream doesn't pour out, panic and throw it into a garbage bag. Light it on fire. Can't be too careful- the cream knows where you live.
22. Take another slug of gin.
23. Ummm.........
24. UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!
25. You don't remember 25-40.
41. Why did you wake up on the floor with an empty bottle of rum, an empty bottle of gin, an empty bottle of vodka, and most of the house burnt down?
John R Davis
Hero
As a descendant of the druids I approve of their continued usage.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
The Egyptians I know are proud in the sense that they don't want to be diminished in the eyes of the world. (If anything, they feel like they don't get nearly the respect they deserve as an elder brother to the rest of the world's civilizations.) I don't think most modern takes on Egyptian mythos make them look anything other than impressive, even if they're sometimes seen as being intimidating or spooky.
If someone made a wacky goofball version of Egyptian mythology (good luck with that, given the details of the Osiris/Isis/Set/Horus story), maybe that would piss them off, but as far as I know, there hasn't been any popular work that does that.
Instead, the folks I know -- and this likely isn't the full scope of their feelings on the subject -- are more concerned about how modern Egyptians are depicted in popular culture, which is typically isn't great.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
We've gotta hook you up with better rum. Whaler's is right there and often sells for a whopping $10 at Trader Joes.
Tony Vargas
Legend
0e D&D Men and Magic?
Sexist?
It's not like it was full of chainmail bikinis, or....
.
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