Unearthed Arcana WotC Surveys: Implementation vs. Interest

[Oofta]

So I'll ask my question again. What would a psion look like other than a sorcerer/warlock/wizard with different fluff? Spell points? There's a variant rule in the DMG. What spells or powers would distinguish them?

 

[Aldarc]

LOL. Nobody is "keeping the psion from consideration as a class". The devs tried a few options, none was popular enough to make it into a publication yet. That may or may not change.

The options that the devs tried weren't particularly good, typically being too radical in either one way or the opposite way. The same was true for the first few iterations of the Artificer. I would not mind a Psion that used spells. And 5e already has alternative spell mechanics apart from full casting that would be suitable for psionics: i.e., Ki and Pact Magic.

There is no anti-psion illuminati.

Don't get snarky about me being demeaning to you if you only planned on engaging in similar behavior yourself. It comes across as hypocritical.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think a big reason for the success of 5e is it's simplicity. So the Mystic class was, by the 5e paradigm, far too complicated.

A much simpler class, much the same as sorcerer but with it's own spell list and a few tweaks with regards to components could well be more popular. I think WotC may be overthinking the problem.

 

[generic]

So I'll ask my question again. What would a psion look like other than a sorcerer/warlock/wizard with different fluff? Spell points? There's a variant rule in the DMG. What spells or powers would distinguish them?

What is a Sorcerer but a Wizard with some tweaks? Your entire argument seems hypocritical to me.

 

[Oofta]

The options that the devs tried weren't particularly good, typically being too radical in either one way or the opposite way. The same was true for the first few iterations of the Artificer. I would not mind a Psion that used spells. And 5e already has alternative spell mechanics apart from full casting that would be suitable for psionics: i.e., Ki and Pact Magic.

Don't get snarky about me being demeaning to you if you only planned on engaging in similar behavior yourself. It comes across as hypocritical.

Then it's not people "keeping a psion from being developed". It's that nobody has come up with a clear picture of what a psion should be in 5E. Big difference.

 

[Oofta]

What is a Sorcerer but a Wizard with some tweaks? Your entire argument seems hypocritical to me.

Those classes play differently. Again: what would a psion look like? We have basic archetypes. Wizards learn from books, sorcerers (which to me are basically psions by a different name, YMMV) have natural ability, bards are just sooo darned cute.

I have no problem with psions, but nobody can seem to address that basic issue other than "I want ... something". Which is what I originally asked. What would make them unique other than fluff?

 

[Sacrosanct]

No, that's intellectually dishonest. I do not wish to come across as rude, but you're wrong. Psionics is not inherently "sci-fi" (D&D bends genre anyway, just look at Spelljammer), and that was not my argument.

My argument is that psionics is no more disruptive than having 'divine' magic as opposed to 'arcane' magic. Where exactly is this trend in most fantasy literature?

Then maybe I misunderstood. You literally said that any argument that psionics was another form of magic was garbage. That means you don't think it's like any other form of magic. Which is also the answer to your question as to why some people don't like it. Because it's not another form of magic, but something completely unique. And for many, like me, magic fits well in fantasy because magic is all over fantasy literature and tropes, while psionics is common in sci fi, but I can't really recall it that often in traditional high fantasy literature. (and using spelljammer doesn't help your argument, because it's extremely niche and is not part of the core D&D fantasy game, and many people didn't like it when playing D&D)

 

[generic]

Those classes play differently. Again: what would a psion look like? We have basic archetypes. Wizards learn from books, sorcerers (which to me are basically psions by a different name, YMMV) have natural ability, bards are just sooo darned cute.

I have no problem with psions, but nobody can seem to address that basic issue other than "I want ... something". Which is what I originally asked. What would make them unique other than fluff?

Tell me, how would a Psion not play differently than another spellcaster? If your metric indicates that Sorcerers play differently than Wizards to an appreciable degree, then why is this not the case for an official class with no spells, psi points, and disciplines that scale with points?

The Mystic, the most official Psion, is rather different than a spellcaster, is it not?

 

[generic]

Then maybe I misunderstood. You literally said that any argument that psionics was another form of magic was garbage. That means you don't think it's like any other form of magic. Which is also the answer to your question as to why some people don't like it. Because it's not another form of magic, but something completely unique. And for many, like me, magic fits well in fantasy because magic is all over fantasy literature and tropes, while psionics is common in sci fi, but I can't really recall it that often in traditional high fantasy literature.

Alright, fair enough. My argument was that psionics is not the same as magic mechanically, but I suppose it can be said to be an archetype of magic lore-wise.

Of course, Psionics is explicitly, even in lore, no magic.

I think I understand your objection now, but I don't see how a bit of genre-bending that has been in D&D for ages and ages is something new and unusual.

 

[Oofta]

Tell me, how would a Psion not play differently than another spellcaster? If your metric indicates that Sorcerers play differently than Wizards to an appreciable degree, then why is this not the case for an official class with no spells, psi points, and disciplines that scale with points?

The Mystic, the most official Psion, is rather different than a spellcaster, is it not?

TBH I didn't pay any attention to the mystic (and didn't vote in the poll for that matter). So I can't answer the question.

My point has been that everything you claim you want is either a variant rule or fluff. There are variant rules for spell points. I don't see how supernaturally bending the world to your will with your mind is not magic with a different label.