[WotC_Logan] Why is Tiamat Huge?

[justanobody]

Plastic Logic

Did you make this term up for this thread, or did I miss it elsewhere in the world until now?

I like the term very much as you have applied it to the situation of Tiamat and her mini. Lets just hope only the term catches on, but not the philosophy behind it.

 

[Klaus]

I think the problem with the D&D Icons line is that they're being pushed as miniatures, instead of action figures or something. McFarlane's Dragons are still profitable, and the smallest of them is Huge, with most being Gargantuan by D&D terms.

 

[Serendipity]

The main reason for making her Huge is so the miniature corresponds to using her as either an aspect or her true form (because if you're fighting a final battle against a deity, it'd be nice to have a cool visual representation of it). Of course, there's no problem making her bigger or smaller if it fits your needs better.

Wait...so (in part) the stats for a God, in game, were determined by WotCs capacity to sell a miniature of said God?
WAT?

 

[Serendipity]

Huge?
That is (per 4e) - one size category larger than a Beholder, Dire Boar, Carriorn Crawler or a freakin' unicorn.
and the same size category as a Balor, Glabrazu, a common Dracolich (neither blackfire nor runescribed) or an elder (but not an ancient) black dragon or for that matter a fell troll.

To me, this smacks of Games Workshop changing the metaplot for WFRPG to bring it into line with how their tournament miniatures game turned out or L5R deciding the direction the game will go based on CCG tournaments. Neither of which I cared for. (of course, neither of those actually changed the stats of a critter in-game or other crunch....)

Yes you can, as a GM, handwave the size of the mini....but gee doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having the mini on the table in the first place?
(Though this does make me wonder - how many groups are actually ever going to meet Tiamat in an encounter?)

 

[Jack99]

Wait...so (in part) the stats for a God, in game, were determined by WotCs capacity to sell a miniature of said God?
WAT?

You got it backwards. They have already sold the miniature (it's an old set). It's a service to those that have already bought it, so that it fits.

 

[Serendipity]

thanks for the clarification

You got it backwards. They have already sold the miniature (it's an old set). It's a service to those that have already bought it, so that it fits.

*considers*
Okay, I'll accept that. The idea of stats derived from miniatures still rankles a bit, but that logic I can't argue with. Fan service FTW.

 

[Fifth Element]

If my legs are sawn off, I can manage pretty okay with a wheelchair.

It doesn't mean it doesn't suck that my legs are sawn off.

Overstate much?

You have said you don't even use minis. So the mini itself is irrelevant to you. So your "wheelchair" is what, having to change one word in her stat block?

 

[JoeGKushner]

WizKids - Mage Knight

Hell, I thought all true fans of the old Tiamat were using that bad boy for it.

 

[Klaus]

You got it backwards. They have already sold the miniature (it's an old set). It's a service to those that have already bought it, so that it fits.

Eh? Why not list the Aspect of Tiamat as Huge, like it has always been, and still have Tiamat herself as Gargantuan? Still serves fans, etc, etc. I mean, Orcus wasn't shrinked to fit his old Aspect of Orcus mini...

 

[Remathilis]

Eh? Why not list the Aspect of Tiamat as Huge, like it has always been, and still have Tiamat herself as Gargantuan? Still serves fans, etc, etc. I mean, Orcus wasn't shrinked to fit his old Aspect of Orcus mini...

Problem:

There WAS going to be a Orcus Gargantuan figure. It was on display at D&D XP

They produced the Orcus in the MM assuming this thing was going to be made and on sale in summer '08, just in time for 4e. But, they ended up "delaying" it for the Dracolich (also a gargantuan creature in MM 4e) and then delayed them both indefinitely.

As KM would say, they were designed and put in the MM at that size with a certain level of "plastic logic" involved. I think the costs involved in that product overshadowed its potential value (As I said with Tiamat, how many times are you really going to fight Orcus?) so they were canned.

I think if they had it to do again, both monsters would be Huge and fit in a Huge Pack, or whatever the DDM 3.0 version will be. They were designed with a certain logic that is no longer applicable. Tiamat managed to avoid this fate by being designed when the knowledge that the Icons line is pretty much dead.

in other words, Orcus's size is a holdover from a different Plastic Logic mindset.