D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Haldrik]

Going back to my previous post (hard to believe that there has already been 13 pages of comments since lunch!), I did a little bit of work on what "Ancestry Traits" would look like in 5E.

A few core assumptions:

• All characters start with 6 Ancestry Points. The DM should adjust that number up or down depending on how much they want race to matter in their game.
• Each Ancestry Trait costs 1 point unless otherwise noted.
• You cannot choose the same Ancestry Trait, even if it's on multiple lists. If you chose the "Dexterity Increase" trait from the Elf Ancestry list, you cannot choose it again from the Human Ancestry list.

Then, you spend these points on some ancestry traits from any number of races. Some DMs might restrict the number of ancestries a character could choose; more than 2 would start to really stretch things IMO but you might disagree.

Spoiler: Human Ancestry Traits

• Strength Increase: your strength score increases by 1.
• Dexterity Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 1.
• Constitution Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 1.
• Intelligence Increase: Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
• Wisdom Increase: Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Charisma Increase: Your Charisma score increases by 1.
• Skill Versatility: you gain proficiency in two skills of your choice.
• Polyglot: you gain one language of your choice.
• Feat (costs 3 points): you start the game with one feat of your choice.

Spoiler: Elf Ancestry Traits

• Dexterity Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
• Wisdom Increase: Your family line has mingled with the Wood Elves. Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Intelligence Increase: You trace your elvish ancestry back to the High Elves. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
• Charisma Increase: You are descended from the Eladrin or the Drow. Your Charisma score increases by 1.
• Fey Ancestry: you have advantage on save throws against being charmed, and magic cannot put you to sleep.
• Trance: You don't need to sleep. Instead, you meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
• Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common and Elvish.
• Extra Language: you can speak, read, and write one extra language of your choice.
• Darkvision: you have darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
• Drow Magic: your Drow lineage has given you the innate gift of magic. You know the dancing lights cantrip. When you reach 3rd Level, you can cast faerie fire once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. When you reach 5th level you can cast darkness once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
• Elf Weapon Training: You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow.
• Cantrip: you know one cantrip of your choice from the Wizard spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for it.
• Drow Weapon Training: You have proficiency with rapiers, shortswords, and hand crossbows.
• Superior Darkvision: You have darkvision to a range of 120 feet. However, you have disadvantage on attack rolls and on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight when you, the target of your attack, or whatever you are trying to perceive is in direct sunlight.
• Fleet of Foot: your base walking speed increases to 35 feet.
• Mask of the Wild: you can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena.

Spoiler: Dwarf Ancestry Traits

• Strength Increase: your strength score increases by 2.
• Constitution Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 2.
• Wisdom Increase: your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Dwarven Toughness (costs 2): your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level.
• Stalwart: your base walking speed is 25 feet. Your speed is not reduced by wearing Heavy Armor.
• Darkvision: you have darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
• Dwarven Resistance: You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage.
• Dwarven Armor Training: You have proficiency with light and medium armor.
• Dwarven Weapon Training: you have proficiency with the batteaxe, handaxe, light hammer, and warhammer.
• Tool Proficiency: you gain proficiency with the artisan's tools of your choice: smith's tools, brewer's supplies, or mason's tools.
• Stonecutting: whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check.
• Languages: you speak, read, and write Common and Dwarvish.

And so on. I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it; I just wanted to put enough ideas down to get the ball rolling. The idea here is that a "half elf" wouldn't necessarily be the offspring of an elf and a human; it might be the offspring of an elf and a dwarf, or a drow and a wood elf.

I definitely like the smorgasbord approach to building a character − which may or may not refer race. Ideally each race has several diverse options.

Regarding the Elf, heh, it annoys me that "only" the High Elf has the high Intelligence. (Especially when the 4e Eladrin was Charisma Intelligence.)

I would rather see things like Orc Chieftain Family (+2 Charisma +2 Intelligence), and so on. Halfling River Nomad (various boating skills and benefits).

In 5e right now, even in the Players Handbook, you are encouraged to create your own skill background. I would like to see the same thing for ethnicity and culture, where you can create your own ethnicity and culture/subculture if you want, or a specific aspect that is prominent within the ethnicity.

But each ethnicity should be able to offer many diverse possibilities.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So what's your opinion of those unjust countries, and of the people that live in there and live by those unjust rules? Your answer is very important, because depending on it, you might end up realizing you aren't that different than those colonizers you criticize.

Injustice is wrong regardless of culture. You'll note, if you're being honest about it, that each and every one of those countries has movements to end the injustices that you are referring to.

 

[Cadence]

That was suggested earlier. Species cannot interbreed, so you wouldn't have half-orcs, half-elves, etc.

Different Macaws species breed in captivity and have gone at least three generations. There are a few examples of fertile female mules and hinnies (from horses and donkeys) and ligers and tigons (from tigers and lions). If humans could breed with either, but not elves with orcs, orcs - humans - elves might be a ring species.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

All right, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here. You'll never convince me that Caravaggio's Basket of Fruit is somehow political because, according to you, all art is. There are literally thousands of art pieces, in all art fields, that can be defined as descriptive. I'm not going to change your mind, so I'm moving on

It's been a while, but I'm sure someone around here can recall details, and if not I'll do some research on my day off, but yes Basket of Fruit was political. Like, beyond the concept that all art is political, Renaissance still life portraits were political.

 

[Flamestrike]

Had you taken care to read all post you'd have understood it immediately. I do not mix real life and games. I have too many friends victims of racism to tolerate this behavior in my life. I will not tolerate racism and ostracism related to health or social position.

You had a king direct my paladin to commit genocide on Orcs for no other reason other than they were Orcs. When I suggested a non violent resolution, you had my character rebuked, and his paladinhood revoked for treason.

How can you reconcile the above statement of yours (repudiating racism in your games), with your in game order by the King to slaughter Orcs based on nothing more than race?

You also expressly labelled 'occasional genocide' as lawful good.

Unless Im reading your prior posts wrong, if my Paladin:

1) Committed genocide on the Orcs, slaughtering man, woman and child alike, I retain my paladinhood and my LG alignment.

2) Refused genocide, and first sought a non violent solution to the problem, I would fall.

But a game is a game. I want my evil to be evil.

Nothing has changed though!

Evil is still evil. Its just that not all Orcs are.

 

[Dire Bare]

Some ideas that have been kicking around my head while participating in this thread . . . .

I like the idea of removing stat adjustments based on race, species, culture (whatever) . . . . but for races that seem to embody something like great strength, I like racial traits currently in the game like the Goliath's "Powerful Build", although you would have to be careful here also.

Currently, backgrounds are essentially "packages" as there are rules for custom backgrounds. Having something similar for race/species/culture would be nice too. You can play an elf and take the "high elf" package, or create a custom culture for your elf PC.

 

[Flamestrike]

That was suggested earlier. Species cannot interbreed, so you wouldn't have half-orcs, half-elves, etc.

Then again, real druids can't turn into bears, so I guess we can use words to mean whatever we want.

Exactly. 'Magic'.

 

[Haldrik]

Scientists have now confirmed our prehistoric humans did reproduce with Neanderthal and other hominids. And their DNA persists among humans today.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I definitely like the smorgasbord approach to building a character − which may or may not refer race. Ideally each race has several diverse options.

Regarding the Elf, heh, it annoys me that "only" the High Elf has the high Intelligence. (Especially when the 4e Eladrin was Charisma Intelligence.)

I would rather see things like Orc Chieftain Family (+2 Charisma +2 Intelligence), and so on. Halfling River Nomad (various boating skills and benefits).

In 5e right now, even in the Players Handbook, you are encouraged to create your own skill background. I would like to see the same thing for ethnicity and culture, where you can create your own ethnicity and culture/subculture if you want, or a specific aspect that is prominent within the ethnicity.

But each ethnicity should be able to offer many diverse possibilities.

A design obstacle that D&D 5E in particular faces is that it's trying very hard not to be the sort of RPG where you can get lost in customization options. Wherever possible, it presents players with simple, concrete choices: pick a race, pick a background, pick a class, pick a subclass a couple of levels later, and so on. (You say players are "encouraged" to build their own skill background, but they really aren't -- that option is buried in one paragraph of the background rules, and a large number of players are unaware of it.)

So putting nuance in the race system is a challenge. Or, to be more precise, the challenge may be addressing the issues people are raising here without introducing a lot of mechanical nuance. This is certainly possible: they could always just say "elf" and "human" and "dwarf" are entirely cosmetic with no rules at all. Very simple. But that's going to stick in a lot of players' craws too, so hopefully they can find another simple solution that's more of a middle ground.

 

[JPL]

How many people exist in the setting of Strahd? Millions? Only two are gay?

What, Ravenloft? All those guys with capes? The second gayest setting, sir. Because Dark Sun is just all loinclothy.