D&D 5E WotC's Stats for Zaknafein Do'Udern

Mercurius

Legend
It still makes me sad that because of the way D&D does its numbers, in order for him to be a worthy opponent, he has to have 20 Strength, so he's apparently Conan.

And 22 Dexterity, so he's Houdini.

And for some reason he has a 19 Intelligence, so he's also Merlin.

And he still manages to have a pretty passable 14 Charisma.

But hey, it's a fantasy setting. Apparently no one in the DC universe seems to be bothered by the fact that billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne has deltoids bigger than Olympic weightlifters, and glutes that can shatter steel. Folks just all are super swole, I guess.

I hear you and have always taken issue with the over-simplicity of the D&D rules, in this regard. I'm not sure there's a way around it, though, without either making it far more complex, or changing it radically.

There was a game that came out in the early 90s called Aria that was focused on "telescopic" role play, where players played entire kingdoms and people within it, that took a different approach to bonuses. If I remember correctly, there were ten or more attributes,and each skill, including combat, had a list of attributes that you could draw from to get bonuses. This allowed you to build whatever type of character you want, to create Oberyn or the Mountain, so to speak, and up with a similarly skilled warrior. In other words, your Sword skill might use bonuses from Dexterity, Agility, and Wits (or whatever the attributes were), because that is the type of swordsman you were (e.g. Oberyn).

The point being, what makes a warrior good at combat is not just how strong they are, archery isn't just about hand-eye coordination, and magic shouldn't just be how smart you are in a IQ sense (a concession to nerdery, I think). All of these activities involve a number of attributes, which can be combined in different ways.

A more realistic approach would be to do away with ability scores and expand the skill list, grouping them into "aptitudes" (or some such), each of which has a natural ("talent") and trained ("skilled") component. so if Sword is a skill within the Combat aptitude, a player would start with a Combat talent bonus and develop their skill through adventuring. Of course that would end up making D&D a different game.

But I digress...
 

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It still makes me sad that because of the way D&D does its numbers, in order for him to be a worthy opponent, he has to have 20 Strength, so he's apparently Conan.
I feel like -- and this isn't just a D&D thing, it's a general RPG culture thing -- we're so accustomed to assuming "level-appropriate opponents" that we have evaluatory tunnel vision. When looking at an NPC or monster or whatever and deciding if they're sufficiently badass, we subconsciously normalize out the level or something. "This level 16 fighter only has 16 Strength -- what a pushover!" When what we should be thinking is "This 16-Strength fighter has reached 16th level -- he's a goddamn board-certified killing machine!"
 

DammitVictor

Trust the Fungus
Supporter
Well, it's nice to see that WotC's commitment to Bounded Accuracy in 5e doesn't apply to Named NPCs.

And that for all I have criticized them for senselessly uprooting the legacy of TSR D&D, they're committed to honoring the most important part of that legacy-- that the most important characters in the Forgotten Realms are not yours, no matter what level you are.
 

Teemu

Hero
The issue of him needing such a high Str score to be worth the CR 16 doesn’t fly. You could also give him more attacks, or legendary actions, or a feature that boosts his longsword or melee attack damage (like hobgoblins and some other published creatures).

I’m guessing they looked at his older edition stats and just assinged something close to those.
 


Weiley31

Legend
The issue of him needing such a high Str score to be worth the CR 16 doesn’t fly. You could also give him more attacks, or legendary actions, or a feature that boosts his longsword or melee attack damage (like hobgoblins and some other published creatures).

I’m guessing they looked at his older edition stats and just assinged something close to those.
He and his son need Mythic Traits.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
But then he wouldn't be as good with his longswords which are likely already an established part of the character in the books so they can't just change them to another weapon.
But I think it's OK that he wouldn't be as good with his longswords. You can still be really good at something, better than almost anybody. And if you then get superstrength as well? You're even better!
 


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