D&D 4E Would 4E be Popular?

[Kanegrundar]

And 3.5 being released 3 years after 3.0 was not an unpopular decision? It was, it was very unpopular, until it came out. Then folks bought it anyways. The same type of thing will happen for 3E when/if it appears.

Sure it was unpopular, until people realized that it wasn't a whole new edition, just a revision with corrected errata (and some new errata to deal with). If 4E happens the way you predict, the backlash would be greater. You're talking about a system that won't be as backwards compatiable with 3.5. That's just too much too soon for many players. Sure, it will sell just becasue it's D&D, but I'd wager that it won't sell as well as 3.0 did. After all, 3.5 was a success, but it still didn't sell as well as the 3.0 books.

I think adding in more of a dependence on minis wouldn't be the way to go either. I really hope that WotC doesn't go this route. Not everyone that buys the minis roleplay (at a couple of the gaming shops I frequent, there are lots of minis buyers that only play the skirmish game). It won't bother me that much if they go that route, but they will faction the fanbase even further.

Look at it this way, WotC is going down the same route that TSR was going down. They are breaking up the fanbase too much. Now we have 3.0, 3.5 players, D&D Minis players, and D20 Modern players. Sure there's a lot of cross-buying (I'm evident of that), but not everyone that plays one plays the others. That's not even taking into account the groups that only play specific D20 or OGL games like Gamma World, Everquest, Spycraft, Stargate, etc... If 4E is released too soon, it won't sell as well as 3.0 or 3.5. They are releasing too many changes too quickly to keep the player base for the newest game as big as the one before. Of course, this is all my opinion and nothing more!

 

[IronWolf]

At this point in time I certainly do not want to see the 4th edition yet, nor do I want to see it in the near future. I am pretty happy with the 3.5 rules and getting a decent collection together.

Even when the 4th edition does come out (and I am sure it will sometime...), I won't be the first to buy it. But I am sure I will end up with it at some point once I am tired of converting more material than I find worthwhile back to 3.5 rules. Eventually I am pretty certain I would end up bumping editions.... After all that's why I have the Original D&D books, Basic/Expert sets, 1st Edition books and 2nd edition books on my gaming bookshelf....

 

[Desdichado]

However, WoC is quickly running out of money making products so it is an eventuallity.

Are they really? Do tell; I'm curious about this fascinating and heretofore un-hinted at scoop you've got there.

 

[buzz]

Would 4E really be that popular of system?

Would the sun really rise tomorrow?

Yes, Virginia. It's D&D. No other RPG on the face of the earth has the branding D&D does. D&D is a part of the collective consciousness of Western culture. All future editions will be the most opular RPG on earth, barring a nuclear holocaust. And even then, you might find yourself with a lot of time on your hands, and no one's going to be minding the game stores... (well, no one human, but that's nothing new).

Would the decision to release a 4th edition be a popular one? Depends on when and the content of said edition. And, no, I'm not buying that it's going to be here in 2006...

I, for one, don't see any drastic changes forthcoming. d20 doesn't need to be fixed like 1e/2e did... It'll slowly evolve over the eons, a la HERO or GURPS.

 

[buzz]

Given the sudden trend toward rules-lite settings like Castles and Crusades that seems to have gained a lot of impetus this year...

One game does not a trend make. Looking at releases as a whole, the crunch pendulum is swinging back from the lite-er days of the latter '90s. d20, the resurgence of HERO, a new edition of GURPS, the buckets o' dice of Exalted... If anything, I think that we're seeing a lot of companies finding a happy middle ground.

Sorry for the tangent.

 

[MerricB]

Huh?!?!?!?! If Wizard's designers ARE the ones who design 4E, then they will pretty much automatically have the expertise in the the system that THEY design. That much is a given. You cannot design a system without having expertise in what you are designing. Now, some of their authors may no longer have system expertise, but that is a different story altogether.

Quite wrong.

Does anyone remember the original Psionics Handbook, Sword and Fist and Tome and Blood? They definitely showed a lack of true mastery of the 3e system.

As an example, in the Psionics Handbook, no prestige class had a incomplete psionics progression - the idea of not having "+1 manifester level" on every level had not occurred to Bruce Cordell. It was only once he started work on Tome & Blood that such occured to him.

The mastery of the system took several years. I know some people are annoyed at the Complete books, but they show a much greater familiarity with the 3e system than was evident with the original builder books.

It took about three years for the designers to find most of the oddities in 3e, and then they fixed many of them for 3.5e. Savage Species was a real wake-up call for the D&D designers, as they suddenly realised how complicated the monster design rules had become - and how clumsy the weapon size rules in 3e were. Both got redesigns in 3.5e.

Cheers!

 

[Arkhandus]

Look at it this way, WotC is going down the same route that TSR was going down. They are breaking up the fanbase too much. Now we have 3.0, 3.5 players, D&D Minis players, and D20 Modern players. Sure there's a lot of cross-buying (I'm evident of that), but not everyone that plays one plays the others. That's not even taking into account the groups that only play specific D20 or OGL games like Gamma World, Everquest, Spycraft, Stargate, etc... If 4E is released too soon, it won't sell as well as 3.0 or 3.5. They are releasing too many changes too quickly to keep the player base for the newest game as big as the one before. Of course, this is all my opinion and nothing more!

Kanegrundar is wise. As-is, 3.5E and D20M came a few years too soon I think, and if nothing else, could have used a bit more research/playtesting/work.

 

[reanjr]

So I ask the ENWorld hordes: What is 4E going to have to do to either get you to buy it and to smooth over relations with the gamers that aren't going to look upon 4E with anything other than anger?

Kane

It would have to called 3e and be fully compatible with the magic level toned down and a classless system. Or it would have to be the second coming.

 

[Ranger REG]

Look at it this way, WotC is going down the same route that TSR was going down. They are breaking up the fanbase too much. Now we have 3.0, 3.5 players, D&D Minis players, and D20 Modern players. Sure there's a lot of cross-buying (I'm evident of that), but not everyone that plays one plays the others. That's not even taking into account the groups that only play specific D20 or OGL games like Gamma World, Everquest, Spycraft, Stargate, etc... If 4E is released too soon, it won't sell as well as 3.0 or 3.5. They are releasing too many changes too quickly to keep the player base for the newest game as big as the one before. Of course, this is all my opinion and nothing more!

I don't know if they're going down the same route as TSR. To me, they're travelling with companies: Palladium, White Wolf, Hero Games, and Steve Jackson Games. They all offer multiple game products, all based on their own signature rules system.

 

[ptolemy18]

So I ask the ENWorld hordes: What is 4E going to have to do to either get you to buy it and to smooth over relations with the gamers that aren't going to look upon 4E with anything other than anger?

Let's see... D&D 2nd edition came out in 1988 and D&D 3rd edition came out in 2000.... So, if D&D 4th edition comes out in 2012 I'll be happy.

Jason

P.S. And 4th edition has to bring back 3.0 Damage Resistance, of course. Because I'll never shut up about it.