would a paladin hate a cleric of wee jas? vice-versa?

[Nail]

....WJ's evil clerics would confound her own paladins.

That said, there's nothing preventing WJ from having paladins. They just couldn't work with her evil worshippers and priests. Which could be awkward.

A very easy House Rule to solve this problem.....

...First: Good post, Felix.

Second: There is no need for a "house rule". What you see being played out in the game mechanics would be called "Factions" within the church. Calls of Heresy and political in-fighting would abound.....and could be tons of fun! Why smother it with a needless house rule?

 

[Sejs]

Even if a cleric is neutral, channeling positive energy is a good act and channeling negative energy is evil

It always seems to come back to that quote, which I still say is ridiculous as it's essentially stating that if you're a neutral cleric, if you regularly and consistantly use your class feature you cannot remain neutral.

Lawful Neutral cleric of St. Cuthbert? Sorry, you've been fighting undead for the last three levels, constantly commiting 'good' acts by turning them. You're now Lawful Good, like it or not.

 

[Nail]

It always seems to come back to that quote, which I still say is ridiculous ...

Moreover, it's not supported by the RAW.

Channeling negative energy, in and of itself, is not Evil. Full Stop.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Moreover, it's not supported by the RAW.

Channeling negative energy, in and of itself, is not Evil. Full Stop.

... for a certain value of RAW.

I believe it actually says in the BoED that channeling negative energy is an Evil act.

Besides, who says that performing Evil acts necessitates that the doer be Evil?

 

[Nail]

I believe it actually says in the BoED that channeling negative energy is an Evil act.

(Ouch. I'm on a roll today.)

Really? BoED, eh? I'll check my digital copy.

Besides, who says that performing Evil acts necessitates that the doer be Evil?

No one...but that's beside the point.

Rebuking UD requires channeling "negative energy". Such an act is not type [Evil] (unless we count BoED ).

Casting the spell Animate Dead, OTOH, would be an Evil act.

 

[Bad Paper]

Besides, who says that performing Evil acts necessitates that the doer be Evil?

Actions determine alignment. If you are casting all those spells on the Death domain list, you will define yourself as evil. I think that's silly, and would say that any spell cast from the Death domain (and not from any other spell list) loses its Evil descriptor, unless the caster's deity is Evil.

 

[IcyCool]

... for a certain value of RAW.

I believe it actually says in the BoED that channeling negative energy is an Evil act.

Besides, who says that performing Evil acts necessitates that the doer be Evil?

It also introduces "good poisons", "exalted" (You're not just good, you're "super-good"), and the saint template (it's balanced by "roleplaying", you see).

 

[Nail]

....yea....don't get me started on the saint template......

 

[Nail]

I believe it actually says in the BoED that channeling negative energy is an Evil act.

I'm not findin' it in BoED. Anyone else?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

We're toying with the setup of PCs in a new group, trying to Pay Attention To Alignment and all that.
Setup: one paladin, one cleric of Wee Jas (or similar), four others (balanced, class-wise)

Would a paladin be really bothered by a lawful neutral cleric that rebuked undead?

This is entirely dependent on how your DM views Wee Jas's alignment, Her clerics' alignments, and channeling negative energy. It's already been cited that, RAW, channeling negative energy is an [Evil] act. I tend to use this as-written, since it explains why even mindless undead ping on the Pala-dar (paladin radar ).

As a DM, I tend to liken channeling negative energy as [Evil] in the same way that slapping a puppy is [Evil]. Which is to say it definitely is [Evil]...but in a very minor way, in the grand scheme of things.

Therefore, so long as a Lawful-Neutral cleric of Wee Jas does [Good] things as well (as the cleric is bound to do, adventuring with a paladin,) the cleric will be in no danger of falling into Lawful-Evil.

Now then, let's look at the RAW restrictions placed on a paladin with regards to whom he associates with:

...a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code.

We're clear on the first part--the cleric wouldn't be an evil character. However, the second part may get us in trouble. Though a cleric of Wee Jas can remain Lawful-Neutral, I'd definitely rule channeling Negative energy as something that would offend a paladin's moral code. So a cleric of Wee Jas that consistantly channeled Negative energy would indeed create a problem. Either the paladin or the cleric would have to leave the party eventually.

The only way to avoid this, as I see it, would be for the cleric of Wee Jas to avoid channeling Negative energy. Or if the DM truly wanted to see this combination succeed, he might give the cleric a bonus feat:

POSITIVE AFFINITY [Divine]
Prerequisites: Ability to channel Negative energy.
Benefit: By spending an extra Turning attempt, you can channel Positive energy instead of Negative energy.
Normal: A cleric can only channel one kind of energy, Positive or Negative.

I can see how this would be a fun little sticking point for role-playing, but is there anyone here who would take Serious Issue with this, nerfing or prohibiting it in your campaign?

I would not prohibit it, but neither would I ignore the inherent problems with the situation. To do so cheapens what it means to be a paladin, IMO. But taking the above steps, I do think the combination is possible.

Is the paladin going to be OK with the cleric animating corpses to throw at their enemies?

No. If the cleric does this on a regular basis, the paladin's moral code will be offended.

Is the cleric going to be upset when the paladin repels the BBEG's undead minions ("I could have used those!")?

Absolutely, but this is entirely an RP issue.

Can there be a paladin of Wee Jas? I don't mean a non-LG paladin, either. What would Wee Jas demand of her paladins?

I don't think so. The fact that there are evil clerics of Wee Jas is the sticking point for me. I don't think a paladin could serve a god that sanctioned evil followers.