Would DnD/d20 Benfit from a 4th save?

[Ranger REG]

What about the opposite? Going down to 2 saves, one physical and one mental?

I kind of agree that having an unbalanced number of saves makes physical stats more desirable than they should be. On the other hand, I can't really envision a second mental save.

How about a Charisma save to avoid social humilation?

"Bored courtier makes a wickedly cutting remark. Make a social save for a witty comeback!" Heh, reminds me of Monkey Island swordfighting.

That's considered a special attack? I'd rather use opposed skill/ability check.

 

[JustKim]

Exalted 2E boasts a social combat system that didn't really impress me, D&D also has at least one version with Penumbra's Dynasties and Demagogues. It's handled with skill checks and Will saves.

 

[Whisper72]

Hmmm.... although I do not necessarily see the real need for an additional save, I would say that a Cha based save, to avoid stat-dumping, would be more logical.

If Cha is explained as also containing pure chutzpah and luck, then it could be used as some form of 'luck' save.

Back in the 1st and 2nd Ed days, I usually added a Luck attribute score, but this would also be a nice way to do it in 3.x edition...

 

[DragonLancer]

Personaly I don't think a fourth save is needed. We have the bases covered with fort, ref and will more than adequately.

 

[Umbran]

I think there ought to be a sort of wits/mental perception check.

Note that "perception" is mostly under Wisdom, not Intelligence. This will be the biggest issue with another mentally based save - folks already have a sort fo arbitrary line between Widsom and Intelligence. Making more dependant upon exactly where a GM draws that line may not be constructive.

Also, I think there already is a sort of wits save - Knowledge checks rather fit this bill.

Do people think there would be value in adding such a save to DnD/D20?

I don't see much value added here. Symmetry is not a worthy goal in and of itself, and I don't see as game play is improved much by adding this.

 

[Whisper72]

Also, when symmetry is on the line...

I see quite another. Con and Str are physical true, but Dex IMHO is not a purely physical stat. Hand-eye coordination etc also fall here. Therefore, I propose the following 'model':

Str and Con as purely physical stats
Dex and Cha which have both physical as well as mental aspects
Wis and Int which are purely mental.

We have the Fort save for the purely physical
We have the Reflex save for the 'mixed' stats
We have the Will save for the purely mental stats

Equilibrium has been achieved, symmetry restored....

 

[HellHound]

Nice. Whisper72 for the win.

I used to use a luck stat for D&D (from years of playing CyberPunk), which is basically used as a save vs bad stuff (whoever rolls the lowest gets the bad stuff if it is aimed at the party, if everyone rolls high enough no one gets the bad stuff in the case of purely random bad stuff that isn't directly aimed at the party).

I was going along with the thought of a fourth save, until Whisper's post.

 

[Whisper72]

Glad to be of service!

It is all a matter of perspective...

 

[der_kluge]

Also, when symmetry is on the line...

I see quite another. Con and Str are physical true, but Dex IMHO is not a purely physical stat. Hand-eye coordination etc also fall here. Therefore, I propose the following 'model':

Str and Con as purely physical stats
Dex and Cha which have both physical as well as mental aspects
Wis and Int which are purely mental.

We have the Fort save for the purely physical
We have the Reflex save for the 'mixed' stats
We have the Will save for the purely mental stats

Equilibrium has been achieved, symmetry restored....

Bravo. Agreed.

In fact, if one wanted to achieve perfect symetry, you could base the save modifier on the average of two attributes.

Fort = Str + Con / 2
Ref = Dex + Int / 2
Will = Wis + Chr / 2

Fortitude is your strength plus your physical presence.
Reflex is your ability to dodge, and your ability to know where to dodge to - keeping up with your surroundings at all times.
Will is a reflection of your wisdom and your graces and personality.

 

[glass]

I'd like to see a CHA-based save, if only to give it some utility for the non-face party members.

I've thought for a while that (what is currently) the Will save should be Cha based.


glass.