Would Paizo Make a Better Steward for Our Hobby?

[Imaro]

In the context of "modelling your PC", I think a trap choice would be (say) a feat called Toughness that doesn't, in actual play, have the mechanical result of making your PC tough.

Actually this is only considered a "trap" choice if you are playing a long-term campaign (in a one shot or short-term game it's not a bad feat to grab at all)... since it doesn't scale. However that seems to be more of a concern with optimization rather than, as @Dannyalcatraz pointed out, whether it makes your character tougher or not, because it does for all practical purposes do that.

Further I think how you and a few other posters are presenting the "trap" choices argument is a mis-characterization of how 3.x was actually designed. In Monte Cook's essay on the matter he isn't saying that there are blatant trap choices, what he was commenting on was the fact that certain options were designed with specific circumstances in mind, (again using toughness as an example it is more beneficial for a first level wizard to take since it almost doubles his hit points or to be used in one-shot/short campaign) but the 3.x books didn't offer the necessary guidance to people in order for them to understand when certain options as opposed to others would be beneficial.

 

[Imaro]

There's a number of areas where I find the setting of 4e rather more original than previous versions. The one that always strikes me as most interesting (and least talked about) is the differentiation between battle magics - the spells that are used in combat - and ritual magics - that are cast outside combat. That is something with large implications for world-building and story-creation, and also something that I rarely see in RPGs. There are some examples, of course, but in my experience most games have either ritual magic or quick magic without having both. That it's also something available to anyone who learns a particular feat is a part of that too, it being something that I don't think I've ever seen anywhere. While there are obvious mechanical implications, the whole Ritual Magic aspect is one of the largest changes for setting implications, and very innovative.

It's interesting that you brought this up since the proto-ritual actually existed in 3.x in the form of incantations in Unearthed Arcana, I think the difference between 4e and 3.x was that 4e made them a mandatory part of the game while 3.x kept them as an option that could be added by the DM.

 

[Nylanfs]

I would just pimp PCGen in the core books. They've already done all the work, and probably better than Paizo could buy from outsourcing. Certainly better than WotC could.

Well thanks for the thought but Paizo has an exclusive arrangement with Lone Wolf for Hero Lab, so HeroLab is the "official" character generator for Pathfinder.

 

[Halivar]

Well thanks for the thought but Paizo has an exclusive arrangement with Lone Wolf for Hero Lab, so HeroLab is the "official" character generator for Pathfinder.

Hah! Thanks for making me aware. Somehow I missed this. Well, I've been using PCGen for 13 years now, so I don't see myself switching over anytime soon.

 

[pemerton]

Runequest worked like that since the 1970s. It never even occurred to me that making NPCs the same way as PCs was particularly original, or that providing a framework for doing that was unusual.

RQ presented monsters using the same statsitical framework as for PCs (and 4e does this too). But I think that 3E is distincitve in using the PC build rules for NPC and monster creation - especially given that it is a class and level game, which means all monster building is done on a class and level paradigm.

Like I said upthread, I'm not sure this is a good innovation!

 

[pemerton]

In the context of "modelling your PC", I think a trap choice would be (say) a feat called Toughness that doesn't, in actual play, have the mechanical result of making your PC tough.

It makes him 3 HP tougher than a PC without it, which is a measurable mechanical difference.

<snip>

It is also a prereq for certain feats in PHB2, one of which allows for minor magical healing. In 3.X, the ability to heal ones HP damage quickly and without the aid of another or a device could arguably be considered "Tough".

Being a prereq is not necessarily a trap, but at that point it's not really modelling your PC. It's a mechanical stepping-stone to somewhere else.

But in more general terms, it's about relativities, not absolutes. The question with a feat like Toughness isn't whether it makes a measurable mechanical difference. It's about whether, in play, it delivers what it says on the tin.

 

[Imaro]

Being a prereq is not necessarily a trap, but at that point it's not really modelling your PC. It's a mechanical stepping-stone to somewhere else.

But in more general terms, it's about relativities, not absolutes. The question with a feat like Toughness isn't whether it makes a measurable mechanical difference. It's about whether, in play, it delivers what it says on the tin.

Well technically it does make you harder to kill...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The question with a feat like Toughness isn't whether it makes a measurable mechanical difference. It's about whether, in play, it delivers what it says on the tin.

Toughness in 3.X (as in real life) can be measured in a few ways, such as having a better Fort save, being resistent to certain damage types, or being able to do physically demanding tasks for longer than others. Having more HP- which the Toughness Feat 100% delivers- is one such measuring stick.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

2xPost

 

[Hussar]

Toughness in 3.X (as in real life) can be measured in a few ways, such as having a better Fort save, being resistent to certain damage types, or being able to do physically demanding tasks for longer than others. Having more HP- which the Toughness Feat 100% delivers- is one such measuring stick.

Well, that is true that it does give you more hit points, therefore making you "tougher". However, the fact that in only gives you 3 HP makes it a very weaksauce feat (thus the trap option where taking this actually doesn't make my character tougher overall since other feats would make me "tougher") and, in play means that you actually can't take more hits since 3 Hp is overshadowed by 2nd level.

When bad guys do about 10 HP/CR per round in damage, an extra 3 HP doesn't actually do much of anything. You still drop in one hit on average.

Then again, are you seriously trying to defend Toughness as a good choice for a character? Really?