Would the spell "Alter Self" give those using it the ability to reproduce as what they've changed into?

[Starfox]

In both D&D and Pendragon, glamor is a technical term.

The technical term in 3E/Pathfinder is "glamer". Similar, but I feel they specifically avoided the term "glamor" or "glamour" to create a technical term, one they could define themselves, without common-usage preconceptions. The 3E glamer is a subset of illusion, just as illusion is a subset of the glamor I was speaking of. Glamer clearly much more narrowly defined than glamor.

glamer ⊂ illusion ⊂ glamor

Still, I do bye your argument - the meaning of these words are given by their setting, as are all technical terms and really all words. What I was doing was just a reminder that glamor can be more than just illusion.

 

[Umbran]

- Religion never come up, unless we want to kill gods. In addition its never an issue cause every one I ever played an RPG table top game with was a sane individual who doesn't believe in a "super-daddy up in the clouds who gets angry at you for eating the wrong thing".

EN World has a pretty strong "no real-world politics or religion" rule. Having different beliefs on the matter is not a basis for derision, much less the suggestion that believers are outright insane, and belittling real-world beliefs is a good way to insult your fellow posters.

Please keep such commentary out of your posts here in the future. Thanks.

 

[Starfox]

The rules don't give a specific answer. Upon reading the question, people will form an immediate opinion. Some people will tell you it works, some people will tell you it doesn't. Tortured interpretations of the rules will be given that are not accepted by people with the opposing viewpoint as legitimate.

Wiser people will tell you that whatever works for your game is what matters. If you don't want to investigate the possibilities, say no. If you do, then say yes, and let us know the results.

I am with TwoSix on this.

 

[TheTurboTornado]

This is my opinion:

No. Alter Self only changes appearance. An example could be a clay figure. The outer layer (skin and, to some extent, muscle) is red, and the inner layer is green. Disguise Self would add another layer, a blue layer, which can look however you want, but is very fake. Alter self would edit the red layer. External reproductive organs could be added, but inner? That would fall under the green layer. Polymorph and similar magic would, however, edit all layers. Would you want a man to experience reproducion(and especially pregnancy) as a woman? Polymorph-like magic would be needed. Or, of course, the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity.

 

[Greenfield]

Short answer no.

Long answer: Hell no.

As written, any part of the changed person that gets separated returns to it's original form. That would include the <ahem> deposit of the male or the straight offspring of the female.

Same applies to Polymorph or Baleful Polymorph.

Shape Change, on the other hand, operates differently. So, apparently, does Polymorph Any Object, though that one is less clear.

 

[Greenfield]

...Or, of course, the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity.

Funny thing about that item. I'd occasionally run across someone who had one on their character sheet, back when the item officially existed in AD&D. And I knew that that was impossible.

The only way to know what such an item was involved the Identify spell. There was no Analyze Dwoemer in AD&D.

To Identify an item, it had to be worn or held as it would normally be used. For the Girdle of M/F, this activates the effect, after which the girdle falls off, and is no longer magical.

So unless you're the DM, or the spellcaster who made the item, in AD&D there's no way to know whether you have one or not.

 

[nijineko]

in 3.x, the spell for that is an epic level spell. thus, by implication, nothing of lower level would suffice to pull the stunt off.

having said that, something which has a permanent effect may also suffice.

on the other hand, if one's goal is to simply have some fun and try something new out, alter self should manage.

 

[TheTurboTornado]

Short answer no.

Long answer: Hell no.

As written, any part of the changed person that gets separated returns to it's original form. That would include the <ahem> deposit of the male or the straight offspring of the female.

Same applies to Polymorph or Baleful Polymorph.

Shape Change, on the other hand, operates differently. So, apparently, does Polymorph Any Object, though that one is less clear.

I agree with your short answer, but not entirely with the long one. The rule says:"any part of the polymorphed creature that gets separated returns to normal". This means that, if you polymorph into a dire wolf, and your leg gets cut of, it'll turn back into a human arm/leg. The 'deposit' of a male or the offspring of a female are produced, just like a giant spider's poison or silk.

 

[Starfox]

I agree with your short answer, but not entirely with the long one. The rule that says:"any part of the polymorphed creature returns to normal". This means that, if you polymorph into a dire wolf, and your leg gets cut of, it'll turn back into a human arm/leg. The 'deposit' of a male or the offspring of a female are produced, just like a giant spider's poison or silk.

I want to both laugh and give Xp to this ingenious piece of rules lawyering! Kudos!

 

[Greenfield]

I think someone is making a distinction without a difference.

My blood is as much a "product" as my saliva or any other bodily fluid (to put it delicately). It's also a body part.

The specific language in the spell goes farther than I mentioned earlier. It includes "pieces of equipment". Not to suggest that spider's silk or venom is "equipment", but the inclusion suggests an intent to include everything. If it's subject to the transformation and it gets separated, it reverts.

As for birth: We're treading dangerously close to a very hot topic of social debate right now, discussing whether an offspring still in the womb is part of the mother or a separate being. However, by either definition, as soon as the offspring becomes a separate being, it is no longer affected by the spell. Either it wasn't affected in the first place, or the effect ends upon separation.

Now, does this mean that someone changing into a venomous creature can't effectively poison someone?

That's already answered in the spell description:

You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two weapon attacks) than normal.
You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form.

So, no venom, no spider silk. They aren't listed as "special attacks" or "special abilities" granted by the spell.

This by itself doesn't invalidate the "product" argument, however, it just invalidates the examples given.

Out of curiosity, is there a Humanoid form with spider silk or venom?

Closest I can think of would be the stench effect of the Troglodyte.