Would this work? (Druidic cloud o' death)

[Torque]

There are a couple of things that seem somewhat ambiguous to me about the Aid Another action, and I was wondering if someone could clear them up. First, if multiple creatures aid a given combatant, do the bonuses stack? Circumstance bonuses usually stack with each other according to the DMG, but it is not quite clear-cut. Second, would a Tiny creature have to enter the target's space to perform the action, provoking AoOs? I would appreciate any insights into these.

The line of speculation that gave rise to all of this came from reading through MotW, and seeing how Aid Attack and Aid Defense are now available as tricks for animals. Thus, if the bonuses stack, a druid could have a swarm of ravens (1/4 HD) that did nothing but aid in combat. Assuming a druid of around 5th level, that means 20 ravens, of whom about 15 will hit AC 10 with their +4 attack bonus. That would result in a total of +30 to attack rolls (or AC, if you want to go that route), which could be split up among the warrior-types in the party, letting them be pretty sure of hitting and turning all the extra into damage with power attack. Of course, one good fireball and it all goes up in smoke, but it could be devastating while it lasts.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Also combat reflexes would make a dent, and whirlwind attack (or great cleave) has a field day...

Seriously though, I think that this principle is fine. Aid another bonuses certainly do stack (and I tend to use them with groups of pike armed kobolds or warrior hobgoblins to bolster the AC and/or hit potential of their leader).

I think that a Tiny creature would have to enter the target space and provoke AoO if it was aiding an attack, but not if it was aiding a defence (since the ravens are fluttering around and hampering the attacker, not directly flying at him so much </end rationale )

It is a good ploy, the druid gives up other useful animal companions to do this, they are vulnerable to feats which are easily gained and spells. Seems like a perfectly usable idea.

I think that the only cap that needs to be put on it is the number of Tiny creatures which can fit in one square (and even with fliers it is still just one square since they have to enter that square to effectively distract - this would limit the maximum possible bonus as the DM desires.

Regards

 

[Christian]

I think a reasonable limit would actually be eight, which isn't enough to make this a seriously annoying problem. Tiny creatures have a face of 2 1/2' x 2 1/2', which means four can fit in a square. The 'height' would be the same as the face, I think, for this size creature, and so the 5' x 5' x 5' square effectively taken up by a Small or Medium humanoid could also contain eight Tiny flying creatures. It could contain more higher up, of course, but (a) it's doubtful that they could 'aid another' outside of their reach, and (b) most flying creatures cannot hover. The eight in the first square could be flying up and landing again within the square, but birds higher up would have to be flying through the square on their turn ... On that second principle, you could probably rule that only four can assist, actually-even the birds at 2 1/2' of altitude couldn't stay there, after all, and only four can fit in the square with you at ground level (hopping up, gliding around you, and landing again throughout the round, of course).

 

[Cheiromancer]

I've been ruling that the aid another effects did not stack- you could have a +2 bonus to attack and a +2 bonus to AC, but no more.

The DMG says that circumstance modifiers stack with each other, unless they arise from essentially the same circumstance.

Aren't the distractions provided by the ravens essentially the same? Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Christian]

Well, roll me in honey and throw me in the bear cave-I forgot to read the rule before posting to a rules thread. The 'aid another' rule states quite clearly (PHB p. 135) that the attack bonus or AC bonus only applies against an enemy that you threaten. So Plane Sailing's ruling about defense bonuses is a house rule, not an interpretation (as I thought it was).

Your little birdies couldn't just swarm around you-they would need to fly into the enemy's space and provoke an AoO (only one, unless the enemy had combat reflexes) in order to give any kind of benefit.

That said, I think that eight birds should be able to attack at once (2x2x2), but on alternate rounds (unless up to four of them are hopping on the ground, of course). I don't see any reason not to let those circumstance modifiers stack-it ought be a lot more distracting for eight ravens to be buzzing you while you're trying to fight than for one to be.

(Heh. "Alfred Hitchcock presents ... ")

 

[Archer]

If there were 8 ravens attacking someone they would give 75% cover for melee/ranged attacks and probably 50% concealment which would balance out the aid another option and end in the death of some ravens.

I'd say 4 ravens would be the limit in one round. Flying creatures typically cannot maintain a perfect formation and attack.

Someone has suggested grappling with squirrells but you can't grapple if you are 2 or more sizes smaller. Sorry, but 100 ants cannot overbear someone and hold them on the ground.