D&D 5E Would you play D&D if you knew there would be no combat?

[Anoth]

Mutants and Masterminds. So, yes. Mind you, that is a havily modified engine. But also mind that most every homebrewer modifies the engine somewhat....



The last time I played Old School Hack... it felt pretty much like D&D to me. So, I'd say probably yes.



For the second, probably not. "D&D" is not being used as "Kleenex" here.

I think the ambiguity of language is a useful thing. There is "Playing D&D" - using a ruleset published by an appropriate copyright holder as D&D. Then there's "playing D&D", which is playing a game that has enough of the traits of D&D as to feel as if it is in the same sub-genre as D&D itself.

And, much of the issue is right in that word - sub-genre. Folks like sharp lines on their definitions, but genres aren't like that. If you have enough of the tropes (which include, but are not limited to, the published mechanics) then you're in the genre. Genres are defined by inclusion, rather than exclusion.



Asking questions when you don't have a presupposed answer is not gatekeeping.

thanks for that answer. I think I would disagree with you some. And really I have been putting too much thought into this lately when I should be thinking of other things like just making fun encounters and scenarios. But it is interesting if taken as a thought experiment.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Then the label/name "D&D" means nothing.

Just like the label/name Coca-Cola means nothing (because it doesn't contain cocaine or kola nuts, anymore!). Except, D&D totally contains all it's original ingredients.

Are some people just using the words d&d to describe any rpg?

IMX, people outside the hobby always have. D&D is the top of the TTRPG iceberg visible to the mainstream. It's often been easiest to describe any other RPG as "D&D, but...."

 

[uzirath]

IMX, people outside the hobby always have. D&D is the top of the TTRPG iceberg visible to the mainstream. It's often been easiest to describe any other RPG as "D&D, but...."

Yeah, I'm inside the hobby and I've been using "D&D" as shorthand for any ttrpg since the early '90s. My 10-year GURPS fantasy campaign was generally known to everybody as the D&D Game. Indeed, the campaign grew out of my high school and college AD&D games—set in the same world with the same genre expectations—so it was pretty much GURPS D&D.

 

[Celebrim]

The last time I played Old School Hack... it felt pretty much like D&D to me. So, I'd say probably yes.

Every game system can be made to feel like D&D by just preparing a dungeon, and going in to the game with a D&D mindset. Some systems pull that off more naturally than others, but I find that if you are not careful it's easy to create a game that could just as easily be a D&D game (and might even profit from that). Paranoia? Take the humor out, and it's D&D. Leave it in, and it can still manage a goofy, beer and pretzels, dungeon of death, "let's hide behind the stack of dead bards", "expedition to the barrier peaks", D&D vibe. Call of Cthulhu? If no one is particularly thespian or immersed in the horror, and your normal game of D&D has some horror inspired elements, and your players are toting shotguns, then it's low level D&D with shotguns. I haven't played it yet, but I suspect if you tweak the setting correctly, "Dogs in the Vineyard" is just D&D with six shooters, which could be Greyhawk or Pathfinder for that matter.

This is of course not a novel observation. "Knights of the Dinner Table" repeatedly made the same point.

 

[Umbran]

Every game system can be made to feel like D&D by just preparing a dungeon, and going in to the game with a D&D mindset.

I was giving an initial example to give a basic answer to the question. It also probably depends on what you classify as "a system".

For example... Shadowrun. In every edition of the system, automatic firearms are a major element of the system, its design, and balance. How much do we eliminate, and still claim we are honestly using, "the system" to emulate D&D? Not to be answered here, but it does speak to the next bit...

Some systems pull that off more naturally than others...

I think that with many, it is unnatural enough that the fact that you need to constantly apply a crowbar becomes a major issue with actually doing the thing.

But, besides that, broadly speaking, I think we agree - if you bring enough genre tropes to the party, you can have many games play such that the players will walk away with that good old "D&D feeling" - whatever that may happen to be for you.

 

[Anoth]

The more I think about it. I really think players are confusing d&d with the sword and Sorcery genre the more I think about it. To me d&d is an engine to play different games with sword and sorcery genre being the most common. I definitely would not say I am playing d&d if i was playing a sword and sorcery game with the mutants and masterminds engine (which I highly recommend people trying)

 

[hawkeyefan]

There is the D&D rules system, which is used as a template for all kinds of genres. I suppose we could call that the D20 system, but it really didn't have that label until the 3e days, I don't think.

But D&D as a game itself....I think in that case, it has an implied setting of some quasi-medieval kind of fantasy world, and relying on genre tropes in a lot of ways. There's also going to be some expectations regarding the play experience. There'll be some variance here, because different editions and play groups have pushed it in different directions, but at its core the idea of kicking in doors, killing monsters, and taking their stuff is pretty fundamental.

If I'm not mistaken, the thread that spawned this one was about using the D20 system/D&D rules to try and craft a survival horror game that would not rely on combat. Basically, the goal was to remove the powerful abilities at PCs' disposal to render combat so foolish as to not be an option. I think the setting was meant to be a modern day one, but I'm not 100% on that. It needed to be able to be labeled "D&D" in order to attract players. But I don't think there was going to be much about it that we would consider D&D.

I think that the D20/D&D System can be tweaked to achieve this goal; restrict class choice to make sense in a modern day setting, slow or halt character progression, limit gear, expand skill use, maybe introduce a horror score or similar mechanic. It can be done.

The question then is if the game that remains would still be considered D&D. I don't know if there's a subjective answer to this because of the overlap between system and setting when you think of D&D....but I can certainly understand why someone would not consider it D&D.

I mean, if there's no chance of a dungeon or a dragon showing up, that says a lot.

 

[Anoth]

There is the D&D rules system, which is used as a template for all kinds of genres. I suppose we could call that the D20 system, but it really didn't have that label until the 3e days, I don't think.

But D&D as a game itself....I think in that case, it has an implied setting of some quasi-medieval kind of fantasy world, and relying on genre tropes in a lot of ways. There's also going to be some expectations regarding the play experience. There'll be some variance here, because different editions and play groups have pushed it in different directions, but at its core the idea of kicking in doors, killing monsters, and taking their stuff is pretty fundamental.

If I'm not mistaken, the thread that spawned this one was about using the D20 system/D&D rules to try and craft a survival horror game that would not rely on combat. Basically, the goal was to remove the powerful abilities at PCs' disposal to render combat so foolish as to not be an option. I think the setting was meant to be a modern day one, but I'm not 100% on that. It needed to be able to be labeled "D&D" in order to attract players. But I don't think there was going to be much about it that we would consider D&D.

I think that the D20/D&D System can be tweaked to achieve this goal; restrict class choice to make sense in a modern day setting, slow or halt character progression, limit gear, expand skill use, maybe introduce a horror score or similar mechanic. It can be done.

The question then is if the game that remains would still be considered D&D. I don't know if there's a subjective answer to this because of the overlap between system and setting when you think of D&D....but I can certainly understand why someone would not consider it D&D.

I mean, if there's no chance of a dungeon or a dragon showing up, that says a lot.

when we play runequest are we also playing d&d?

 

[generic]

when we play runequest are we also playing d&d?

When do we ever play Runequest?

 

[MichaelSomething]

Now that I think of it, I bet a D&D campaign based off of the Survivor reality show could be fun. Which OC will get voted off this session?