Would you use Armor as DR Why? Why use it for AC?

[DonTadow]

I like the Iron heroes view (rolling die for dr) but it seems time consuming and i can see battles lasting a bit longer (my pcs are not terrible at basic math). Luckily I use dmgenie and someone just created an Iron heroes dr script which should make keeping track easier.

Outside of the dr of other monsters, what other complicatins have you seen. does combat really last longer?

 

[Coredump]

(GS & plate vs dgr & lthr)
Not at all, I would say (at least not every time). By all means though, support your claim with some kind of evidence - it might help somewhat.

Heh, lets ignore the armor for a minute, grap a 12" ruler, give your friend a 5' long stick, now fight each other for awhile, see who is getting hit more often.
Now the common response is "but the GS is heavier". Well, they really were not all that heavy, but okay, give him an iron pipe.... do you feel safer now??


Now, to make it even more interesting, he can hit you just about anywhere with the iron pipe, since leather doesn't do much, but now pick 5-8 places that you can hit him. Like, in the eyes, under the arm, behind the knee...nothing on the forearm or chest or leg.... Are you having fun yet?

Sure, the metal armor will slow him down some, but not as much as you would like.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Personally, I think a called shot system of sorts is also required when standard armour can provide DR 8/-, or even greater. Otherwise, there is literally no way a (standard) dagger wielded by someone of average strength can do *any* damage to the wearer of say, full plate (even with a critical - i.e., even with a coup de grace for that matter). And so on.

I have a system that allows you to use weapon skill ranks to increase damage.


RC

 

[Aus_Snow]

Sounds interesting, RC. What's the basic gist - er, beyond the ability to somehow use skill ranks to increase damage?

 

[Raven Crowking]

(Please note that using this system requires a lower BAB for all classes, and is intended to work with a number of related systems, such as armour as AC/DR and wounds/vitality)


Weapon skills are used somewhat differently from standard and psychic skills. When you purchase a weapon skill, your skill ranks are directly added as modifiers to attack rolls, damage, or your Armour Class, as described below.

Combat Modes

When using a weapon skill, you engage in one of six combat modes. If you do not declare what mode you are using during a round of combat, it is assumed that you are using the standard mode. Not every weapon skill allows for every combat mode; see the skill descriptions for details.

The table below shows the effects of using the various modes. You cannot have fractional modifiers; where division leaves a remainder, it applies to the first roll listed. Thus, the standard combat mode applies half your ranks to your attack roll and half to your damage. If you had three ranks, the standard mode would give you a +2 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to damage.

Some weapon skills also have an Armour Check Penalty. Where this is the case, subtract the Armour Check Penalty of the armour you are wearing from the number of skill ranks you have available to spend. This cannot reduce your skill ranks below 0.


(I can't format tables on EnWorld worth beans!)

Combat Mode Description Effects


Accurate: You care more about where you hit than hitting; you target vital areas: All skill ranks go to damage

Aggressive: You care more about hitting than where you hit: All skill ranks go to attack roll

Brutal: You seek to inflict massive damage with each stroke: ½ skill ranks go to damage, but weapon’s threat range is increased by 1 per 4 ranks remaining (or portion thereof)

Defensive: You seek to protect yourself as much as you seek to strike your foe: ½ skill ranks go to Armour Class, ½ skill ranks go to attack.

Fully Defensive: You seek to protect yourself at all costs: All skill ranks go to Armour Class

Standard: You seek to make a balanced attack: ½ skill ranks goes to attack roll, ½ skill ranks goes to damage ("When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, then you can head off your opponents with a balanced attack" )

 

[Cabral]

(I can't format tables on EnWorld worth beans!)

To format a table, put the [ code ][ /code ] tags around the table. It displays all spaces and all characters (including spaces and special characters) take up the same amount of space) then preview the post to see what needs adjusting ... so ...

On the table, a * indicates round up (1.1 becomes 2), otherwise round down

Combat Mode	to Hit	Damage	Threat Range	AC
Accurate                 All
Aggressive       All
Brutal                   50%*      12.5%*
Defensive        50%                            50%*
Fully Defensive                                 All
Standard         50%*    50%

 

[Nyaricus]

@ RC - that is an aesome idea! I really like it - are there any mechanics other than that - ie skill ranks, etc that you could *cough* up I'd love to hear more.

One question: what about those who are furtitively trying to strike out and defend themselves - +to AC and Damage? Just a thought, but i could see this as a fighting style.

Anyways . . .

@ monboesen - what do you like the most about Iron Heroes? I decided to start a discussion in the general forum about this, so instead of continuing this threadjack, shall we move our comments over there?

EDIT: here's the link, although i see you found it already http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=159517

 

[Aus_Snow]

Raven Crowking: Yeh, what Nyaricus said.

I like the looks of it, with what there is to go on. Is it purely your own house rule, or from elsewhere, or a mix of the two?

 

[Raven Crowking]

@ RC - that is an aesome idea! I really like it - are there any mechanics other than that - ie skill ranks, etc that you could *cough* up I'd love to hear more.

One question: what about those who are furtitively trying to strike out and defend themselves - +to AC and Damage? Just a thought, but i could see this as a fighting style.

Anyways . . .

@ monboesen - what do you like the most about Iron Heroes? I decided to start a discussion in the general forum about this, so instead of continuing this threadjack, shall we move our comments over there?

You can include a "damage + AC" if you like; this seems unlikely as a weapon function to me.

Fighters gain armed combat styles. Shadowfists (my modified monks) gain unarmed combat styles.

Combat Modes only affect your weapon skill ranks; you can still defend using the rules described in the PH. Thus, you can use the "fully defend" combat mode with the "total defense" option, allowing you to use all weapon ranks +4 to your AC if you forgo all attacks.

Of course, since these are weapon skills, Axe Fighting does not include the Fully Defend combat mode because axes are not designed for that. Spears, rapiers, and so on all do this option. Likewise, a battle axe (Axe Fighting) allows for the Brutal mode whereas a quarterstaff does not. (Obviously, you may adjust these to your vision of the weapons).

Some weapons do not have fully associated skills (i.e., club), but you can use those weapons via other Weapon Skills as though they were makeshift (-4 rank penalty).


RC


EDIT: Weapons IMC all have one of five weapon speeds as well, that give penalties or bonuses to Initiative:

Very Fast: +4
Fast: +2
Standard: +0
Slow: -2
Very Slow: -4

I use a d10 for Initiative, and roll Initiative every round. Simultaneous initiatives are allowed. If your initiative is over 20 (and for each increment of 10 over 20) you gain an extra attack (I have lowered BAB, and thus extra attacks by level) on a staggered basis. I.e., if your roll is 22, you gain actions at 22 and 2. If your roll is 32, you gain actions at 32, 22, and 2. This is actually the old Villians & Vigilante's system with a small amount of tweaking. If your initiative falls below 0, you are limited either to a partial action or you may forgo your action to add 10 minus the value of your Initiative roll to your next initiative. (The value of the initiative roll is its absolute value, so that if your roll was -4, the value would be 4; 20 - 4 would give you a +6 bonus to initiative on your next round. This better models fast and slow monsters/weapons to my way of thinking).

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Raven Crowking: Yeh, what Nyaricus said.

I like the looks of it, with what there is to go on. Is it purely your own house rule, or from elsewhere, or a mix of the two?

This one's purely me.


RC