WoW 2004=D&D 1980-ish

Actually, the peculiarities of WoW and D&D are such that it makes it quite arguable to accept your OP. Your premise makes Baseball Card Collectors and MtG Players practically kissing cousins.

About the only thing I will accept, as far as 'niches is concerned', can be boiled down to the following statement:

D&D and WoW are recreational pastimes, played by a noticeable number of people.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Mourn said:
Just wanted to point out that WoWWiki is the second largest English wiki in the world, behind Wikipedia. That's a huge feat right there, considering the amount of other wikis for various topics (such as Star Wars).

That is very impressive, and geeky . . . and different from what I assume to be the typical types of geekiness from my fellow TRPG players.
 

I'm trying to avoid all WoW vs D&D threads I find...but well, I'll just post something short, simple, chaotic and without any sense (if possible).

I played WoW since beta. Quit once for a year, eventually came back 14 months ago and quit again 5 months ago. Different reasons to play WoW and to play D&D.

I play D&D because :
-I love it.
-I really like fantasy settings, creating stories, characters and having the power of interact with those environments.
-I'm a very creative person, and this kind of thing really helps to unleash all those ideas that run through my mind the entire day (somewhat related to my second point).
-I play it with my friends. It's what forged our friendship 8 years ago and well, we keep playing, after everything that has happened, individually and to everybody. It's true that, being older, we got responsabilities, less time overall, but we manage to get at least twice games running each month.
I had played some Spanish RPGs when I was 12 (almost 13 years ago) and after four years of not playing anything, some classmates and me gathered and one of them was a Rolemaster player, so he started to DM for us. Then I took the lead with Lord of the Rings. I kept hearing about D&D, THE RPG, but couldn't find books anywhere. Tried to find used ones by some stores, but no luck. Then some guy I barely knew said that he had the basic AD&D set (just player handbook) and he decided to just give it to me. There I started my D&D career till now (I've DMed other games, but D&D is what I like). After all those years and problems, we still enjoy hacking and slashing some enemies. Ah, nostalgia.

Why I play(ed) WoW?
Well, I've played all Blizzard games online (Since first Diablo) so WoW was next. However, it's too time consuming and the pressure (I was GM of a Molten Core raiding guild when that was the top thing the first time I quit; And a retribution palading in a Black Temple/Hyjal raiding guild the second time I quit). It's a masterfully done game, with plenty of things to do. It seems you never run out of things to do. A very complete and enjoyable hobby. But again, too time consuming overall. Spending a few hours working on spreadsheets to enhance my DPS is fun at first, then you realize it's too much.


I think that comparing them is kinda comparing apples to oranges. Yes, both are fruits, both serve a similar goal, but they are so different in the end...
(Apples are better).

Ok, that wasn't short, but it sure made no sense!
 

Harshax said:
Actually, the peculiarities of WoW and D&D are such that it makes it quite arguable to accept your OP. Your premise makes Baseball Card Collectors and MtG Players practically kissing cousins.

About the only thing I will accept, as far as 'niches is concerned', can be boiled down to the following statement:

D&D and WoW are recreational pastimes, played by a noticeable number of people.

I certainly won't argue that the experiences of playing D&D (or any TRPG) vs WoW (or any MMORPG) are decidedly different. But the experience of play is not where I am conflating the two. Rather, it is in the geeky subculture bleeding into the mainstream niche that I am talking about. Popular cultural awareness is high for WoW, as it was for D&D during its prime. In many ways this is a "good thing" because those looking for an outlet to their geeky side are aware of such a thing and can gravitte toward it. But this cultural awareness can be bad, too, particularly when psuedo scientists and pundits with axes to grind get ahold of it.

Put more simply, twety five or thrity years ago, D&D was the thing that the geek found and embraced. Moreover, it was the thing that the mainstream associated with the geek, the outsider and wierdo -- something that made a good punchline for the rest of the world. Today, it is WoW.
 

You guys are totally missing the point.

There's a bug in this code. It's supposed to be a comparison:

WoW == D&D

But the OP is doing an assignment:

WoW = D&D

All I can say is that a *bunch* of WoW players are gonna be pissed when their Level 70 Dwarf Hunter is replaced with a Moldvay-era 8th level Dwarf. Just Dwarf.
 

Reynard said:
I certainly won't argue that the experiences of playing D&D (or any TRPG) vs WoW (or any MMORPG) are decidedly different. But the experience of play is not where I am conflating the two. Rather, it is in the geeky subculture bleeding into the mainstream niche that I am talking about.

This is another "they're ruining the game by using the word 'buff'" thread, isn't it?
 

Reynard said:
It occurs to me: concerns about whether WoW and D&D compete, or whether WoW is killing D&D, and so on are swinging wide of the real issue: WoW is D&D. Or, rather, it fills the same niche with the same demographic that D&D did all those years ago. It's why the enjoyment of either isn't mutually exclusive of the other -- that has more to do with generation than anything else, I think. D&D can't fight WoW because they are members of the same evolutionary line.
.

I play WoW. I have played DnD for the past decade and more. Almost every single one of my friends plays WoW or DnD, or more often, both. Moreover, WoW is a great gateway drug for DnD. My wife started out hating all things dnd, all things gaming. I got her hooked on WoW.. now she can't wait for DnD 4e to come out so she can dm her first campaign.

One is a computer game -- it gives expression to the swords and sorcery concept. DnD is a tabletop roleplaying game. The computer game handles complex math and many many monsters fluidly so that you can have long chains of complex fights back to back without needing to sit down and work out the math -- without ever giving rise to a rule question. It is a beginers course on gaming. Tabletop allows me to place my players in a world that truly responds to them off the battle field.

This is essentially my biggest beef with the WoW==DnD / DnD and WoW must collide / zOMG the rules are changing DnD is no more -- 99% of my games happen out of combat. My players spend significantly more time figuring out where to go, what to do, how to accomplish their goals -- than they do whacking this down for xpees (though there are usually at least a few fights a night.. I mean.. it is DnD gotta roll goblins for loot). To distill the greatness of a ROLEplaying game down to the mechanics of the ROLLplaying side of it, betrays the core of the game. It cedes all that makes TT better than a computer game to the dustbin of history -- without even acknowledging the act.

WoW isn't dnd. Dnd isn't wow, or everquest, or Magic the Gathering (which is now dnd's closest cousin mechanicaly when discussing character creation and combat simulation).

DnD is about exploring a world. It's about working as a team to overcome a diversity of goals. WoW is about leveling to 70, and getting into the end game instances to farm for loot so you can do the next instance and so on. The greatness of WoW is the mechanical complexity of getting the most out of your character, of out-performing the game and defeating combat challenges with ingenous tactics and useage of class powers.

They're both fun. I love them both. For me, they're both social activites (I play WoW with my friends and we use a teamspeak server to talk while we play). Wow gives me flawless crunch. DnD gives me a deeper experience.


In DnD, The system is second fiddle to the characters and their story. At least in all the games I've ever enjoyed.

*edited for grammar*
 
Last edited:


Harshax said:
Not to offend any WoW players, but I don't imagine them running off to the library to read up on 'mandrake', 'trebuchet' or 'guisarme', and thereby get what I oft consider to be a foundation for a hungry mind.

One could argue, WoW might encourage you to become a programmer or video artist, but that's not really the same at all.

I like the presentation, and the ability to chat sociably with people from all over the world, but in my opinion WoW is too passive of an activity compared to D&D.

My point being, WoW and D&D don't share the same niche, and playing one doesn't automatically mean you could enjoy the other.

I know your intention is not to offend, but I really find this kind of generalization unwarranted. WoW has 8 million+ subscribers from all walks of life. My guild includes grandparents, working professionals (including a head librarian), and full-time students.

They may not play WoW to "feed a hungry mind", but they certainly use it as a vehicle for escape, much like DND or any other hobby.
 

Here's why D&D will succeed even in the age of WoW: teenage boys. Thank the dark gods of blood, war and boobies for over adrenalined boys ages 10-13. Have you as an adult ever seen teenage boys discover D&D?

It is a sight to behold. They start wondering why they aren't playing a video game and wonder what all this dice and paper is about. The minis are cool, but not as cool as their latest Xbox game. And then it happens...

The kids discover they can do anything in an RPG and they tend to blow past the rules to make Conan the Gandalf who cast spells while using their two handed swords in each hand. WoW will NEVER give them that "do anything" option.

A great fun part of teenage boys discovering RPGs is that they start telling stories. While they can tell you that they did Raid X, Y and Z on WoW, it is amazing how animated they become discussing all the wild details of their RPG experience.

Capitalize on that energy and you rejuvenate the hobby.
 

Remove ads

Top