WoW and 4e - where's the beef?

[Crothian]

There are some similiarities but the differences are far greater. The biggest perhaps being in D&D we control the game and the world allowing us to do and play it however we want.

 

[AllisterH]

Interesting discussion.

re: Healing Surges

I'm not sure what the videogame equivalent to this is....but here's an interesting point. THe original HALO:CE, was widely hailed as being revolutionary BECAUSE of its automatic healing (shields). Prior to Halo, healing required the use of stimpacks and actual healing classes so here's the question.

Is 4e's healing a videogame concept given that pre-HALO, videogames did NOT use automatic healing?

re: Read vs Play

It comes down to what others have mentioned before. 4e READS like your typical guide for a videgame but ironically, I'm almost positive that the 4e designers mentioned they used the M:TG style guide for writing and M:TG is way older than most videogames people are familiar with.

So again, is this a videgame concept even though M:TG has been using this forever?

AS an aside, the closest videogame that matches 4e in play would be the tactical RPG genre (-japanese games like Disgaes and FFT, western games like Fallout Tactics & Jagged Alliance)

 

[Leatherhead]

re: Healing Surges

I'm not sure what the videogame equivalent to this is....but here's an interesting point. THe original HALO:CE, was widely hailed as being revolutionary BECAUSE of its automatic healing (shields). Prior to Halo, healing required the use of stimpacks and actual healing classes so here's the question.

Is 4e's healing a videogame concept given that pre-HALO, videogames did NOT use automatic healing?

I think you might have to clarify this. I am quite sure that games had regeneration before HALO, it is just that HALO's shields regenerated very quickly to full after not being depleted for a set amount of time. Similar to a second wind.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Saying 4e is like WoW is dumb. The evidence usually brought up that doesn't pertain to how Tieflings look like un-sexy draenei* is usually evidence that cuild equally state "4e is like anything in the world that at one point was influenced by D&D, or heck, fantasy in general." Typically it's along the lines of "Look, 4e has people in HEAVY ARMOR. RING A BELL? Or hey, look at that, the ROGUE uses DAGGERS. WHERE HAVE I SEEN THAT BEFORE? HMMMM."

DIsliking 4e is fine - I mean come on, this is me posting - but if you're going to do so, do so for intelligent reasons.

Besides, 4e is totally Guild Wars ;p

*Seriously, that complaint I understand.

 

[AllisterH]

I think you might have to clarify this. I am quite sure that games had regeneration before HALO, it is just that HALO's shields regenerated very quickly to full after not being depleted for a set amount of time. Similar to a second wind.

True, I'm thinking some of the Ultima series offered regeneration but don't hold me to that...I think the big leap forward was that Halo embraced it so that you didn't have to wait a long time to get back into the fight.

CErtainly, among shooters, Halo's shields are considered a revolutionary part of the genre.

 

[Blizzardb]

Besides, 4e is totally Guild Wars ;p

Mister, you just won yourself some XP

 

[Hereticus]

I've seen a lot of criticism of 4e. Some I think are valid, some aren't.

The one criticism that continues to baffle me is the comparison between 4e and World of Warcraft. I see it thrown around all the time. Not just here, but in RL, elsewhere on the internet, etc.

I have never played WoW, nor any other video game (excepting Space Invaders a hand full of times).

My only exposure to WoW came from South Park.

But it impossible to exist in society and not understand what a video game is.

There are two video game characteristics that I believe have influenced 4.0E, and in my opinion both are negatives.

1) Balance: In WotC's quest to have all classes and races balance with each other in all combat scenarios, many of the races and classes seem a bit sterile, missing much of the uniqueness they had in previous editions.

2) Range: No spell has a range greater than 100 feet, which is less than medium range in the previous edition. It is my opinion that range was limited by design so that all action could fit on a computer monitor.

As I said many times earlier, I like 4.0E. But I see those two negatives as video game derived.

Note: When people who are not WoW players compare 4.0E to WoW, they are likely categorizing all video games into one, using the name of the one they heard of most and demonizing it. In a similar manner, some non role players categorize all RPG as D&D.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I've actually never played WoW, but I've played quite a few WoW clones like Warhammer: Online and LOTRO. In my opinion, D&D 4E is no more similar to them than it is to any other computer RPG (a genre that D&D inspired in the first place). Also, it is no more similar to them than any of the older editions was.

I think the main reason people are making this comparison are the class roles and the MMORPG archetypes (tank, etc).

I find it a notable difference that in most games - including WoW the archetypes or roles are typically build options. The class is not designed for one role/archetype, but an individual character can be built to fulfill a particular role. I think that is actually the novel aspect of D&D 4, something that distinguishes it from something like WoW.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

[D][/D]

IIt is my opinion that range was limited by design so that all action could fit on a game table or graph paper and that melee characters don't run around for several rounds.

Seriously, modern games have features like "zooming". Little issues here... But it is very annoying if you can't fit the distances on your physical game table.

 

[Leatherhead]

I find it a notable difference that in most games - including WoW the archetypes or roles are typically build options. The class is not designed for one role/archetype, but an individual character can be built to fulfill a particular role. I think that is actually the novel aspect of D&D 4, something that distinguishes it from something like WoW.

I'm confused, are you saying that 4E builds don't effect what roles a character can fill?