Wow, check out this rules FAQ on the WotC boards.

[Voadam]

evil animating

There seem to be three types of spells that grant the evil descriptor, protection from good type spells, summoning evil creatures, and anything creating undead. One thought is that a spell that is designed to desecrate a body is elementally evil. With create undead it is much clearer because you are binding spirits into corpses and cursing the souls with a tortured undead existence. It would be more straight forward if zombies and skeletons had an evil alignment (as I think they do on the WotC website templates)then it would be from the creation of an evil thing. With the introduction of non-evil undead it becomes harder to justify (Forgotten realms good liches for example).

However, the morality of using the spells is separate from the effects of the evil descriptor. It means good clerics do not have them on their spell lists and it means they generate an aura that can be detected using detect evil. As a bonus, if caster level is Epic 22+ you can stun good 11th level or less characters detecting your animate dead (or if you create a 22HD undead). Using the spells for neutral or good purposes does not negate the evil descriptor so Jakandor does detect as generally evil.

I do agree that Jakandor is a great resource and neat culture/Setting. I'm sure they have no problem accepting that their practices can be detected as "technically evil" and may even be considered such by unelightened barbarians such as the Korr.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Hmm, don't most good deities tell their clerics "No! You cannot cast that spell! Die for your deity!" or some such words. Even if animate dead could save your life. Good deities just hate that spell.

I also haven't heard of deities granting sudden spellcaster levels in times of danger (except Ruha from FR, but she's special). They have a few rules to follow. You have to demonstrate your faith (and do something good for it) to gain those spells. If you happen to be an inexperienced but devout and talented cleric (ef Clr3, Wis 18), on an important mission, and you are suddenly surrounded by orcs, wouldn't antilife shell be such a cool spell to have now? Just pick up those javelins when they toss them at you! Of course not. Your deity will say that you've failed and will let you die. Even good deities let their paladins die.

BTW making animate dead [Evil] isn't a hard and fast rule; you can easily houserule it if you want. If anyone's played Diablo II you can see undead put to "good" use.

 

[Number47]

In my game, undead have a fierce hatred of life and a fierce attraction to it. If an unintelligent undead isn't controlled by something, it seeks out the spark of life and tries to grasp it (which means the death of a living being). I get the idea from the various zombie movies. So to create one of those things would be evil, no matter what your purpose. I would allow a good person to do it, though, because they can choose to do an evil act. I just make sure they realize the act itself has consequences for them.

There is an exception, too. In my game, there is an entire country whose patron god is the keeper of the dead. In their religion, in order to earn your place in the afterlife, you must continue to serve after death. These undead do not have the hatred of life that most do. They serve as general laborers of some kind for two years, then they are put to rest. They are never used for war or violent purposes, because this would prevent the person from fulfilling their service. The country has excellent roads and public works!

 

[Voadam]

Psi,

Well the rule from the srd is "Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or to his deity's." So its not just good gods being picky. A good cleric of a neutral god can not cast animate dead, while his fellow clerics of the same god can. So even if his religious doctrine has no problem with animating dead and using their labor, he can not cast the spell under the standard rules because of the evil descriptor.

Therefore I would say it is more a matter of incompatibility with that type of divine power than Gods being judgmental.

47,

So do you have two types of undead and two separate animate dead spells? life hating zombies and skeletons that are evil and animated corpses that are neutral, one with a standard animate dead and one with non evil animate dead? The difference would show up in uncommanded ones, do they stand around or seek out life to consume(providing a wandering mosnter rationale).

 

[Henry]

This reminds me of numerous debates on using dark side force powers. The explanation given was as follows:

"Using a dark side power, even for good purposes, is still evil. Using force lightning, for instance, or the choke power still requires the user to channel his feelings of fear and/or hatred to accomplish the task. It requires touching within himself that which as a conscientious user of the Force is opposed to. By tapping that which is dark, hateful, or fearful, he has tainted himself, even if slightly."

In other words, I don't care if you are using Force Lightning to jump off your car battery in the middle of the road, you still had to curse, swear, and wish evil things on your dear Sweet Grandma in order to "psych' yourself up" for this power.

Same explanation could be used with Evil spells. The user has to make a bargain or commune with darker powers in order to actually work the spell. Even a morally ambiguous individual would be eventually corrupted - perhaps even sooner than a Good user.

I think the Neitzche quote applies here: "Beware when hunting monsters, lest you yourself become a monster."

 

[Number47]

47,

So do you have two types of undead and two separate animate dead spells? life hating zombies and skeletons that are evil and animated corpses that are neutral, one with a standard animate dead and one with non evil animate dead? The difference would show up in uncommanded ones, do they stand around or seek out life to consume(providing a wandering mosnter rationale).

Actually, the difference is geography. In my game, gods are very tied to geographical locations. So the influence of this god (a greater god), extends over the entire country. If a non-intelligent undead was brought into the area, it would become non-violent. Because it isn't the body of a worshipper, the first time a priest came across it, it would be commanded to dig itself a grave. Conversely, when these priest travel abroad, they can only take a few zombies. These clerics control undead, no matter what the clerics actual alignment. If the cleric lost control, for some reason, the zombie would revert to destructive, life-hating.

These are examples of my game, not a recommendation on how to run yours, though. If you do allow non-evil animation, there had better be a darn good backstory.