D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

[Maxperson]

Maybe they should.

But I'd say a str 10 6 foot 6, 200+lb human is a goliath.

I mean Goliath was just a huge human.

And a lithe human should have the elven agility abilities, and a short human the halfling ones.

No.

Color me against the homogenization of the races.

The point is that you should be able to make weak goliaths and orc runts as casters and rogues.

You can. Roll a low strength. You can get as low as 5 for a goliath.

The comparison is between halfling, humans, and goliaths of the same STR. The 8 STR goliath can lift more than the 8 STR halfling.

That's the issue. If Joe rolls a 8 with his halfling and gets +2 to DEX and John rolls a 6 with his goliath and get +2 to STR, both are 8 Strength.

But it makes no sense that an 8 strength halfling lifts the same as an 8 strength goliath.

That's why the player of the goliath should probably include some sort of childhood disease that wiped out his physicality and left him weak. Then it does make sense.

 

[Minigiant]

And a lithe human should have the elven agility abilities, and a short human the halfling ones.

No.

Color me against the homogenization of the races.

No, I mean Goliath should be a subrace of human. Like you get a feat or "Goliath traits". Biologically a goliath is just a big human fro the mountains.

A lithe human is still a human. They don't get the aging, senses, and trance of an elf.

This is the whole point. Races are being focused on their biological traits.

That's why the player of the goliath should probably include some sort of childhood disease that wiped out his physicality and left him weak. Then it does make sense. It's also easier if you imagine that if the goliath was a halfling, he'd have a 3 strength and not the 8.

Doesn't matter.

Wizards are getting away from racial abilities because it gets in the way of character design and High Racial Ability Dependence can get in the way of lore.

Races should be purely biological. PCs and Antagonists are weirdos and freaks and can have uncommon stats. DMs can put ability bonuses in sterotypical spots for NPCs and monsters.

In the game I'm playing in, the Wood Elves, Sand Elves, and Wild Elves use the same race but different +2/+1

 

[Ixal]

Races should be purely biological. PCs and Antagonists are weirdos and freaks and can have uncommon stats. DMs can put ability bonuses in sterotypical spots for NPCs and monsters.

In the game I'm playing in, the Wood Elves, Sand Elves, and Wild Elves use the same race but different +2/+1

Yes, races should be biological and ASI are part of this biology. Some races simply are stronger, smarter, more dexterous, etc.
And even "weirdos and freaks" can't escape biology. So a "freakishly strong elf", while being stronger than nearly all orcs, would still be weaker than a "freakishly strong orc"

 

[Minigiant]

Yes, races should be biological and ASI are part of this biology. Some races simply are stronger, smarter, more dexterous, etc.
And even "weirdos and freaks" can't escape biology.

The point is that overemphasis of Racial Ability Score causes an issue with creativity of characters, groups, and worlds.

So WOTC is shifting to emphases to derived aspects that are useful to all character types from adjustments that that push particular classes.

 

[Maxperson]

No, I mean Goliath should be a subrace of human. Like you get a feat or "Goliath traits". Biologically a goliath is just a big human fro the mountains.

A lithe human is still a human. They don't get the aging, senses, and trance of an elf.

This is the whole point. Races are being focused on their biological traits.

First, stat bonuses are a biological trait. Second, elves are agile and dexterous, so they should have non-racial abilities reflecting that. Abilities that humans with the same build should also have, if we follow what you've said here. Stocky humans should have dwarven endurance traits. A nd so on. That homogenization of the races. It may not make them identical, because as you've noticed elves live longer, etc., but it does move them closer to just being humans with a few differences.

Doesn't matter.

Wizards are getting away from racial abilities because it gets in the way of character design and High Racial Ability Dependence can get in the way of lore.

Does matter.

What you just said applies to the removal of racial stat bonuses as well. The removal gets in the way of character design. It prevents me from designing a character whose race is more dexterous or strong, and it gets in the way of lore around such bonuses.

All that is accomplished with the removal is switching which people are being catered to with their subjective preferences. Except that mechanically, it's FAR easier to just remove the bonuses or make them generic place where you want than it is to add racial bonuses back in. That makes the removal more of a detriment to the game than inclusion is.

In the game I'm playing in, the Wood Elves, Sand Elves, and Wild Elves use the same race but different +2/+1

I think that's cool, but it was accomplished(and easily) without taking away racial bonuses from the game. What WotC should have done is something like they did with alignment.

Elf
Ability score increase: Usually +2 to dexterity.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I fail to see the issue. Just apply level adjustments.

Didn't level adjustments always fail to work properly? I mean, a character with 10 health is going to get creamed in a CR 5 fight, even if they can dish out 30 damage a turn... actually, especially if they can because then they become a target.

On one hand, yeah, my level 1 Barbarian is much more effective with 60 health and a +8 to every attack, but on the other I've just traded interesting abilities for bigger numbers. And that doesn't feel like a good choice.

 

[Ixal]

The point is that overemphasis of Racial Ability Score causes an issue with creativity of characters, groups, and worlds.

So WOTC is shifting to emphases to derived aspects that are useful to all character types from adjustments that that push particular classes.

As I said before, ASI do not hamper creativity. A unwillingness of playing anything not optimized does.

People who do not play race/class combinations because of ASI will just not play race/class combination with a not synergyzing racial trait after ASI is removed.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The fact you could have a 17 str Halfling at level 1, and an 8 str Goliath, will never be not nonsensical. That Wizards has cast their lot in on this absolute travesty of a design path is what it is, but it will never make sense if you try and look at it from a world building perspective, ever.

But it has always been possible to do, even with Halflings having a +0 strength and Goliaths having a +2 strength. As long as rolling the dice is an option, then the numbers are always going to be possible. This doesn't change that at all.

 

[Maxperson]

Didn't level adjustments always fail to work properly? I mean, a character with 10 health is going to get creamed in a CR 5 fight, even if they can dish out 30 damage a turn... actually, especially if they can because then they become a target.

On one hand, yeah, my level 1 Barbarian is much more effective with 60 health and a +8 to every attack, but on the other I've just traded interesting abilities for bigger numbers. And that doesn't feel like a good choice.

Level adjustment was broken. It was initially okay, because at low level the stat bonuses and increased abilities did make you more powerful, but that quickly fell to wayside after a few levels and the meager abilities of the race were overshadowed by the much more powerful class abilities and feats.

I just got rid of it entirely. My standing rule was anything of Level Adjustment +1 was okay to pick without asking me. If it was +2 or higher, I had to look at it and okay it or say no. If I was fine with the power it gave(ie it wouldn't disrupt my game), then I said okay.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yes, races should be biological and ASI are part of this biology. Some races simply are stronger, smarter, more dexterous, etc.
And even "weirdos and freaks" can't escape biology. So a "freakishly strong elf", while being stronger than nearly all orcs, would still be weaker than a "freakishly strong orc"

And yet everyone's biology caps at 20 in all those stats.