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D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

Except that biology is what makes races unique. By making ability scores selectable you remove nearly all uniqueness from races.
Biology is one thing that makes them unique. I would say their particular connection to certain gods matters and their shared history (nearly not totally universal with its cultural implications).

take one thing away and you take some but not all away. But I do think it changes party composition and dilutes things a bit.

Not a fan myself but it does not totally wreck the game. Not sure why they felt e need but think it less campaign and mechanic related than some are saying
 

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HammerMan

Adventurer
So this could be be (Human, half elf, Half orc, teifling, aasimar) (Drow, High Elf, Wood Elf, Astral Elf) (Mountain Dwarf, Hill Dwarf, DUragar) (light foot halfling, ghost halfling, stout halfing) (rock gnome, forest gnome) (Metalic Dragonborn, Chromatic Dragonborn, Gem Dragonborn) 6 "lineages" plus a custom linage
 

Ixal

Adventurer
Hogwash:

A +2 or +1 to a particular stat does not make a race interesting. Many Half Orcs are strong but why ALL half-orcs? Many elves are dexterous but why ALL elves?

In the grand scheme, it's not a huge bump 5-10% PCs should be able to apply how they like.

Truly interesting stuff, like being able to squeeze through a 1 inch hole, having 4 arms or being mostly construct - that has the potential for being interesting,

Besides, PCs are supposed to be somewhat outliers - the ones who don't exactly fit in and are drawn to a life of wandering and adventure - why limit them to their racial trends (which are silly anyway).
The "not all elves" and "PCs are outliers" is already covered by distributing the starting ability array. Players are free to make a clumsy elf or smart half orc by putting the respective score from their array into that attribute. But they would still be an elf or half orc and a clumsy elf would still be different from a clumsy human.

Biology is one thing that makes them unique. I would say their particular connection to certain gods matters and their shared history (nearly not totally universal with its cultural implications).

take one thing away and you take some but not all away. But I do think it changes party composition and dilutes things a bit.

Not a fan myself but it does not totally wreck the game. Not sure why they felt e need but think it less campaign and mechanic related than some are saying
That is all part of culture and not race which can, but doesn't have to be related.
 

Bolares

Hero
That’s is a point well taken. However, if we have a race with many warriors and give str and con (dwarves) we will see it in play.

when the dwarf says “no” I want to be a wizard, that pc is perceived as an unusual sight that mirrors in game fiction (if it’s true that dwarven wizards are rare).

I can really see both sides and do lament that the unusual combinations will be nothing extraordinary anymore. And by that I mean very specifically uncommon, rare and not seen much at the table.

it’s interesting to note that all characters can get a 20 eventually but without the quick start some folks will just avoid the extra ASI or half feat to get there.

theres not right or wrong here: some people want quicker payoff. That’s ok.

but I do think it reduces congruence of in game fiction party and character composition a bit.
Sure, but you represent the Racial standard in NPC stats. The player character is supposed to be able to be different from the norm. A pc dwarf being a good wizard option doesn't mean every dwarf is. I think it's the job of the race's description to tell you about their many culutres and what the average dwarf represents, but the stats shouldn't funnel you to a single playstyle. (This is all just my opinion)
 

Mort

Legend
The "not all elves" and "PCs are outliers" is already covered by distributing the starting ability array. Players are free to make a clumsy elf or smart half orc by putting the respective score from their array into that attribute. But they would still be an elf or half orc and a clumsy elf would still be different from a clumsy human.
The point is, like it or not, if given set stat bumps, many players will pick a race for no reason other than the stat bumps. Remove that rigidity and you have players picking races for the rest of the race - maybe even because they find the race interesting. It certainly can't hurt.

And the setting and ultimately the DM set the differentiation between the races not some minor benefit to a stat or two.
 
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Ixal

Adventurer
The point is, l like it or not, if given set stat bumps, many players will pick a race for no reason other than the stat bumps. Remove that rigidity and you have players picking races for the rest of the race - maybe even because they find the race interesting. It certainly can't hurt.

And the setting and ultimately the DM set the differentiation between the races not some minor benefit to a stat or two.
If players pick their race solely for their stats, then they will also pick their race only based on their other abilities and not because they find them interesting.
Players who pick their race because of interest also don't have a problem from missing out a +1 or +2 to their primary stat.
 

Bolares

Hero
If players pick their race solely for their stats, then they will also pick their race only based on their other abilities and not because they find them interesting.
sure, but their other abilities will be way less restricting of class choice. Nothing worse than seing a player bummed out because their character legs behind statwise just because they thought of a fun character concept.
 

Mort

Legend
If players pick their race solely for their stats, then they will also pick their race only based on their other abilities and not because they find them interesting.
Players who pick their race because of interest also don't have a problem from missing out a +1 or +2 to their primary stat.

So make the abilities fun (and sufficiently different) and it doesn't matter WHY the player picked the race. Picking for stat bumps is pretty hard to make fun.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
If players pick their race solely for their stats, then they will also pick their race only based on their other abilities and not because they find them interesting.
If you pick a race for its abilities, you’re by definition picking it because you find those abilities interesting, no?
Players who pick their race because of interest also don't have a problem from missing out a +1 or +2 to their primary stat.
Not always true! Some players want to pick a race for reasons other than stats, but feel the stats have too big an impact on the way the character plays to be worth giving up. Different players have different thresholds for this kind of thing.
 

Ixal

Adventurer
So make the abilities fun (and sufficiently different) and it doesn't matter WHY the player picked the race. Picking for stat bumps is pretty hard to make fun.
For minmaxers it won't be fun.
For everyone else, playing the not optimal character will be fun too, sometimes especially because he is not optimized.
 

Bolares

Hero
For minmaxers it won't be fun.
For everyone else, playing the not optimal character will be fun too, sometimes especially because he is not optimized.
That's really generalizing. I had a player that wanted to make an air genasi storm sorcerer. For min maxing that's a really bad combo, even without ASIs. He is fine playing that character, even if any other subclass would be better for a sorcerer, but being at 15 max charisma was a real feel bad for him. It would make him not want to play the character he wanted to play.
 



Mort

Legend
That's really generalizing. I had a player that wanted to make an air genasi storm sorcerer. For min maxing that's a really bad combo, even without ASIs. He is fine playing that character, even if any other subclass would be better for a sorcerer, but being at 15 max charisma was a real feel bad for him. It would make him not want to play the character he wanted to play.

One thing I find sad is the mentality/belief that anything less than 16 in a "primary" stat is bad/wrong/terrible (It might not be universal but it's pretty pervasive). What's worse is that (the few times) I'm playing vs. DMing, I find myself gravitating toward that belief.
 

One thing I find sad is the mentality/belief that anything less than 16 in a "primary" stat is bad/wrong/terrible (It might not be universal but it's pretty pervasive). What's worse is that (the few times) I'm playing vs. DMing, I find myself gravitating toward that belief.
that is a math problem of the game if a plus one was sufficient for the entire game math then a 16 would not be needed.
 

One thing I find sad is the mentality/belief that anything less than 16 in a "primary" stat is bad/wrong/terrible (It might not be universal but it's pretty pervasive). What's worse is that (the few times) I'm playing vs. DMing, I find myself gravitating toward that belief.
It’s not. And I don’t feel compelled to go above 16.

but this is one reason why ability scores and race were decoupled.
 


FitzTheRuke

Legend
When it was first suggested, I felt that removing ASIs from races would make them less diverse, but seeing them presented this way... I really like it. I can always make my Giff have a bump in strength and constitution if I want to play up that big ol' hippo, or I can put it in intelligence and wisdom for my wizened old (but still tough!) wise-guy hippo.
 

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
When it was first suggested, I felt that removing ASIs from races would make them less diverse, but seeing them presented this way... I really like it. I can always make my Giff have a bump in strength and constitution if I want to play up that big ol' hippo, or I can put it in intelligence and wisdom for my wizened old (but still tough!) wise-guy hippo.
Or Dexterity and Wisdom if you want to be a sniper/gunslinger Giff!
 


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