D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

[Scribe]

That's not backwards compatible then.

Sure it is. Nothing material changes.

'use this wording or what you already have'.

 

[HammerMan]

That's not backwards compatible then.

dude, that is salesman talk... nothing is 100% backwards compatible unless nothing changes.

if they update any race, any class, that already is not 100%. if they change nothing why reprint at all? what is the point of surveys if nothing is to be changed?

heck imagine if they (not saying they will or should) they split perception back into spot/listen.... by 1 change to the skill everything gets slightly thrown off... the bigger the change (say new race= heritage format, or making beast master use new rules) it changes more and more in a butterfly effect.

 

[Maxperson]

except you can say "90% of Dwarves put there +2 in Con" and get that... PCs are generic they are individuals.

That doesn't work for two reasons. First, 90% isn't the entire race, it's 90%. Second, 90% choosing con isn't the same as 100% being born with bonus con.

except that is what the other side is saying... our PCs are exceptional, they are individuals...
going off the above 90% idea, what if you had under stats "Dwarves get +2 con, but when making your character you can as an indvisual dwarf swap that for +2 any stat"

Dwarves aren't given a choice. You don't to be born a dwarf and opt into a con bonus. It's just there. As I've said multiple times, though, I have no problem with dwarves having a racial bonus of +2 and then giving a floating +2 so that all of you guys who want to pick can still do so. +2, +2 doesn't break anything.

 

[Maxperson]

Because a floating +2/+1 could be placed in something the player finds useful.

Or we can have both. +2 racial and +2 floating.

 

[Faolyn]

It doesn't have to be, it's a choice to lean into, or not.

Regardless, we all know it's a meaningless circle at this point, you won, I lost.

Maybe you should stop thinking of it as you lost, and try to look at all the new options you've gained.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No. It's not just as good. It works in addition to the stat bonus, but not as a replacement.

Cool. And they should have both. Because describing them in ways that indicate a higher con bonus and then not giving it to them creates a disconnect between the lore and the mechanics.

That is just not right. If you give both, that might be overkill. There is absolutely no justification in linking both, extra feature and ability score. There is no disconnect at all. It is only in your head.
Even the unhealthiest dwarf (that with con 8) can still find some reserves somewhere. Giving them +2 so that their con is 10 in no way creates a disconnect.

I am not against a bonus to con by the way. But your argumentation still makes not a lot of sense.

Maybe give all dwarves a +1 bonus to con and 2 points to divide as you wish.
Give all big races +1 to strength and con and 1 floating around. It does not matter at all.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That's not backwards compatible then.

Of course it is. If you don't improve anything, why bother woth 5.5 at all?

It just has to be so close that you could theoretically use an old character and play with it. That was possible in 3.5 too, although quite a few things changed.

 

[Faolyn]

Or we can have both. +2 racial and +2 floating.

Which isn't going to happen anyway.

You're not losing anything by having to manually put the +2 in the stat of your choice. You're not making elves less graceful or dwarfs less tough or gnomes less smart if other people choose to put the +2 in a different stat than you. You don't have to take those options--absolutely nobody is saying that you, Maxperson, can't make all your elves with +2 Dex and all your dwarfs with +2 Con and all your gnomes with +2 Int. Nobody is going to look down on you if you make all of your PCs with their +2/+1 in the "traditional way."

 

[Scribe]

Maybe you should stop thinking of it as you lost, and try to look at all the new options you've gained.

I have lost though.

At least so much as what I was paying Wizards to provide. Right up there with Canon.

Dust in the wind.

 

[Maxperson]

That is just not right. If you give both, that might be overkill. There is absolutely no justification in linking both, extra feature and ability score. There is no disconnect at all. It is only in your head.

No, it's in your head

Claiming it doesn't exist and is only in your head is not productive.

Even the unhealthiest dwarf (that with con 8) can still find some reserves somewhere. Giving them +2 so that their con is 10 in no way creates a disconnect.

So an unhealthy dwarf 8 con, is very healthy with his racial ability, creating a situation where said dwarf is unhealthy and healthy simultaneously. That's a disconnect.

And the unhealthiest dwarf is currently 5(3 with your method) con, not 8. Rolling is a thing

Maybe give all dwarves a +1 bonus to con and 2 points to divide as you wish.

+2, +2 doesn't break the game. Mountain dwarves prove that.