Wraithstrike balance evaluation examples

[Rystil Arden]

True, but that damage can be made up other ways; Gr. Magic Weapon, Gr. Mighty Wallop, various "burst" qualities, etc.

That won't come anywhere near Str-based damage and Power Attack. Besides which, I seem to remember the Wallop spells are problematic themselves (isn't it the one that ups the base damage to the stratosphere?). Also, the Wraithstriker can use all those things you just suggested to do even *more*.

 

[Infiniti2000]

From these threads, the only conclusion that I has that I have come about wraithstrike, it is either the wrong level or as one of my DM's and I have talked about is that while under the effect of this spell, you have no strength score. That would mean that you could not add strength or power attack damage. This is especially made evident from the thread about DR. Since this attack also bypasses DR as a touch attack like a wraith which has no strength score, why should PA and strength be added? It shouldn't!!!!!!

If you don't allow strength on the damage, then you cannot allow it on the attack roll. Just to be consistent.

 

[Heckler]

That won't come anywhere near Str-based damage and Power Attack. Besides which, I seem to remember the Wallop spells are problematic themselves (isn't it the one that ups the base damage to the stratosphere?). Also, the Wraithstriker can use all those things you just suggested to do even *more*.

I'm not aware of any issues with the wallop spells. It increases the weapon's damage as if the weapons were of a larger size catagory(ies). IIRC Four steps higher max.

So are you saying that WS is on par with GF?

 

[Stalker0]

That won't come anywhere near Str-based damage and Power Attack.

So what we've proved is that a 2nd level spell can give you a stronger attack than an 8th level one. Hmmm

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm not aware of any issues with the wallop spells. It increases the weapon's damage as if the weapons were of a larger size catagory(ies). IIRC Four steps higher max.

So are you saying that WS is on par with GF?

Wraithstrike is far better than Ghostform for attacking, far better. Ghostform has defensive stuff too and utility. Also, it is worth noting that the opportunity cost for activating Ghostform is higher--you have to waste a round putting it up, although it admittedly lasts 1 round / level. In most cases, losing out on that buffing round can be critical)

As to Greater Mighty Wallop, you're getting ~6d6 bonus weapon damage from Greater Mighty Wallop from each attack, possibly 10d6 if you are doing things with Enlarge. It is out of line with weapon damage buff spells, but it isn't as bad as Wraithstrike (it can, of course, make it even worse when combined with WS, but a lot of things in corner-case books can do that).

 

[Infiniti2000]

There is a reason I keep saying that people should use it AND GIVE IT A FAIR CHANCE, like more than one game, and more than one senario. I've been responding to people who never even tried the spell for over a week now. MOST responses are from people who never gave the spell a fair chance in game, because they admit they banned it based on what they read, or their theoretical analysis, or a single battle, or a single game.

And in the opinion of those people (me included) is that it's perfectly acceptable to ban a spell (or magic item or feat or whatever) based on a reasonable analysis. I don't need to see a good role player not take advantage of this to know I don't want such a stupidly-designed spell in my game.

More importantly, and why this thread exists, I recommend to everyone out there not to use spell. Don't even bother trying it and allowing it in your game. It's a MUCH bigger hassle to remove a spell from the game later after you find out it sucks. Forget about the problem of reworking a character (even an NPC) after removing the spell, you'll have a glaring continuity error. That part creates major suckage for the game in general.

Take a close look at everything you allow (if you have the time but I assume most people here reading threads like these have at least some time). Discuss your concerns with the players and come to a group consensus, but this spell (and a few others) should be at the top of your concern list.

 

[wildstarsreach]

If you don't allow strength on the damage, then you cannot allow it on the attack roll. Just to be consistent.

I agree but against touch AC's, who needs it.

 

[wildstarsreach]

So what we've proved is that a 2nd level spell can give you a stronger attack than an 8th level one. Hmmm

Yet another observation that shows that wraithstrike is overpowered and needs to be higher. I think that 6th or 7th would be what I would live with, or 3rd level with stripping off the ability to add strength or power attack damage.

 

[wildstarsreach]

And in the opinion of those people (me included) is that it's perfectly acceptable to ban a spell (or magic item or feat or whatever) based on a reasonable analysis. I don't need to see a good role player not take advantage of this to know I don't want such a stupidly-designed spell in my game.

More importantly, and why this thread exists, I recommend to everyone out there not to use spell. Don't even bother trying it and allowing it in your game. It's a MUCH bigger hassle to remove a spell from the game later after you find out it sucks. Forget about the problem of reworking a character (even an NPC) after removing the spell, you'll have a glaring continuity error. That part creates major suckage for the game in general.

Take a close look at everything you allow (if you have the time but I assume most people here reading threads like these have at least some time). Discuss your concerns with the players and come to a group consensus, but this spell (and a few others) should be at the top of your concern list.

I agree with your opinion here. House rules or DM's perogative are part of the foundation of this game.

 

[Rystil Arden]

If you don't allow strength on the damage, then you cannot allow it on the attack roll. Just to be consistent.

Actually, the Str -- idea should probably let them use Dex for attack rolls instead of Strength.