Xanathar's Warlock Celestial

WotC's Mearls talks to D&D Beyond about the Warlock Celestial subclass in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. "What we've established in the cosmology of Dungeons & Dragons, is that clerics are tied to the divine beings, gods, or concepts and viewed with the divine, so it might be like the silver flame from Eberron. The celestial though is rather than being a divine being per se, it's a celestial being so it could be something like an angel, a ki-rin, a unicorn or anything else that's a powerful good aligned creature but it doesn't necessarily have to be a God."


[video=youtube;yfEWMNe2Q8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfEWMNe2Q8M[/video]


"And so that's the difference between for a warlock, warlock don't make pacts with specific individuals who are sharing power with the Warlock, rather than a cleric renting, gains power that's granted to them by the divine. And also with Celestials we still assume obviously it's a celestial, it's some sort of good aligned creature. So it's something the celestial warlock compared to other warlocks as a healer, they gain cure wounds as one of their sort of baked-in first level spells, and one of their first class class features allows them to heal. They also deal with radiant energy.

So I mean obviously you can play an evil celestial pact warlock if you wanted to, nothing stopping you from doing that, but the game kind of assumes that celestial means either good aligned or having to do with radiant energy and healing. And so compared to a cleric, where when you think of a divine spellcaster you think you think they're going to be tied to a domain like the cleric class does, where the god's portfolio influences the follower's magic, the celestial's more specific about being about radiant energy. It's almost like it's less refined compared to a cleric's ability to wield magic and cosmologically it's more of a brute force way to get magic with a pact, and that's kinda how we think of the Warlock in general that the Warlock pact is like the is almost like a a hack in the system of magic rather than the sort of accepted or intended ways in which people use spells. And in my head canon that's kind of why the warlock came into D&D later on it, sort of took the universe of D&D a while, people to figure out how to use magic this way as opposed to the sort of more traditional spell slot based ways of using magic.

And so yeah it's a celestial, you can imagine it might be something like especially, say, a coatl who might have agents in the world and so the coatl has these pacts with its agents for going out and working on its behalf, so they're they're good aligned celestial style creatures who aren't gods. And because of that one of the things I like about warlocks [in the city of pax?] is it can be more personal, a coatl might have a desire to protect a specific person, a specific family, or city where gods are more remote in Dungeons & Dragons, and I think that's something which in a DM can play up or a player could really bring into the game, this idea that the patron is more personal, might be someone you have more direct conversations with rather than speaking directly to God or Thor or something like that where they're much more remote, more abstract.

So I really kind of created it with this idea of someone wanting playing more the heroic warlock. Warlocks traditionally have a sinister bent to them in the game. If you look at the Players Handbook, the initial patrons are either things that are traditionally very evil like a fiend or the Great Old Ones or something that's kind of dangerous, maybe not evil but not necessarily friendly like a fey lord, so we wanted to kind of balance the scales a little bit and say being a warlock is does not inherently make you villainous or doesn't inherently make you dark and sinister. That celestial beings - obviously it's a celestial pact - they can also create pacts and so it's kind of balancing out the storytelling possibilities. And I also like that even introducing a new healer into the game essentially then you can run a warlock as your healer if you don't want to play a cleric, you can play a character in a very different casting tempo who can still bring a lot of healing to the table for the group."



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The Players Handbook already has errata. This clarification about what kinds of options a player has with regard to the divine, is important.

It does not have errata of the nature you're talking about. It has errata on minor errors in grammar and text, clarifications on minor wording where intent didn't come through perfect, and not on conceptual changes like the kind you want.

Really Yaarel, there is literally zero percent chance you get this kind of thing in errata. They didn't make an error or leave something out or say something which needs clarification so their intent comes through. The default game really doesn't include this option for players right now. It's a fine addition, and I think you will find it in an expansion or setting book of some kind at some point, but it's never going to be retroactively added to the PHB for errata. They's said outright they absolutely will never do that with errata for this edition.

And to be fair to the concept - I don't think there are a lot of people pining away for this either. Most D&D players don't seem to care if their PC worships a deity versus an abstract concept, or if they do they just do that without permission from the PHB because it doesn't really impact anything much in the DMs control. It hasn't really come up in threads with people complaining about it, or in surveys, or in sage advice questions, or Facebook comments, or Reddit comments, or really anywhere people talk about these things.
 
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I don't think it needs to be explicitly stated. Most of the player base probably gets it implicitly from the domains so it would be a change for little in terms or clarification and use.

It would be similiar to an errata saying "You are not limited to these dwarvish names for your character, this is just a sample list". Most everyone understands that to be the case so the errata wouldn't really change anything.
 


Y'all yaberrin' bout them gods and such and meanwhile Arcane Archer preview was posted on YouTube... Get that darn pickin admin to post a front page article about that!
 

To be fair, the Players Handbook fails to ‘establish’ a link between the cleric class and any divine ‘concept’.
Not really. The PHB explicitly suggests some concepts, philosophies, and non-god divine forces as potential deities for a cleric to pick.
It explicitly and persistently explains the cleric as a polytheistic idolator. Clerics worship a creature, typically a humanoid.
I've not seen this spelled out explicitly anywhere.
Are you sure that you're not misreading suggested examples as the only options? Or misreading "deity" as a D&D mechanical term requiring a FR-style 'god'?

Many examples, reinforce this. The lists of polytheistic gods that probably should have been in the Dungeon Masters Guide as part of the setting cosmology, are instead part of the Cleric class in the Players Handbook.
So are the lists of divine forces, philosophies etc. They're probably in the PHB because picking a deity is part of Player Character generation (particularly for a cleric). If the only list of deities in the PHB was the default FR gods, than that would have excluded most of the other types of deities.

That said, with regard to the Cleric, what the quote seems to emphasize is, the Cleric class ‘established’ the Cleric as being connected with the *divine*, a deity. The quote goes beyond the Players Handbook rules as written, and instead offers the possibility that this ‘deity’ might instead be impersonal rather than personal, thus more like the ‘concept’ of Silver Flame, in the sense of the concept that ‘God is Light’.
That is already established in the PHB: The Silver Flame, and other impersonal deities are mentioned a couple of times in the text as well as in the list of clerical deities.
Its worth pointing out that the Silver Flame isn't that close to the 'God is Light' concept I believe though. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any listed deities along those lines, but creating new deities like 'god is light' and 'god is compassionate actions' should be pretty simple. They sound similar to the alignment-philosophy deities.

By contrast, the Warlock has no contact with any sense of the Divine, but instead relates to actual heavenly creatures, whether they be an angel, kirin, spiritual guardian, perhaps a righteous ancestor, saint, or so on.
I think that the Silver Flame has actually been mentioned as a potential source for the Undying Light Warlock as well.

With regard to the Silver Flame, I love the abstraction. To be honest, I am less a fan of its hierarchical dictatorship model of its organization, where one ‘prophet’ has a monopoly on Truth (with a capital T) and tells everybody else what to do.
I quite like the very Eberronian concept that the Silver Flame as a deity is very distinct from the Church of the Silver Flame and the Nation of Thrane. Many outside the Church follow the deity, and some inside the Church don't.
The way that the Silver Flame interacts with the "gods" of the setting is also interesting: acknowledging them but providing a more material alternative to the gods.

I want the Players Hanbook to include errata that explicitly offers examples of how the Cleric might access the divine as an abstract ‘concept’.

I want the Players Handbook to have the Cleric class description with errata to include examples of divine ‘concepts’, such as the Silver Flame. Eberron is a great place to start.

I want the ‘cosmology’ of D&D 5e to ‘establish’ divine ‘concepts’ as an abstract option for a kind of ‘divine beings’. Officially.
It already does most of that. No Errata needed.
 


Not really. The PHB explicitly suggests some concepts, philosophies, and non-god divine forces as potential deities for a cleric to pick.

You claim the PH mentions how the Cleric class can instead pick a ‘concept’ or a ‘philosophy’?

Heh, are you telling the truth?

Please cite and quote the text that you have in mind.
 

As far as I know, there is no reference in the PH to a Cleric concept or philosophy.

For example, in the Cleric description, the Light Domain mentions ‘the Silver Flame’, which is something, but it refers to it as one of the ‘gods’. There is no indication in the text that this refers to the divine as an abstract ‘concept’.



Elsewhere, in the PH appendix about ‘gods’, it classifies gods as belonging to a pantheon. In its section about the Eberron setting, which differs from the default 5e setting, it says. ‘Eberrons other religions are very different from the traditional D&D pantheons. The monotheistic church of the Silver Flame is devoted to fighting against evil in the world.’ Again, there is no explanation that this is a concept. Moreover, the appendix seems to marginalize the choice of Silver Flame as a nonstandard choice that has no place in ‘traditional’ D&D. In other words, allowing the Cleric class to choose a divine concept seems to be impossible in the default 5e setting, and to require the DM to homebrew in order to make this choice permissible.

More clarification would be helpful.
 
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You claim the PH mentions how the Cleric class can instead pick a ‘concept’ or a ‘philosophy’?

Heh, are you telling the truth?

Please cite and quote the text that you have in mind.
The Cleric class description speaks of them gaining power from their deity.

There is a list of deities in the back of the PHB (one of the appendices I believe). These include abstract concepts and philosophies such as everyone having the divine within themselves, accepting the passing of one age and beginning of another, and the aforementioned bunch of dead snakes with the martyr complex.
Also mentions ancestor worship. There aren't any monotheistic gods in there AFAICT, but there is a pretty good range of other flavours of religion.
 

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