[XPH] Psion versus Wizard/Sorcerer

[Urbanmech]

Another easily overlooked roadblock for Psions is that quite a few of their high level powers that don't deal direct damage are mind-affecting. Constructs, Undead, and Mindblanked enemies will laugh in your face. Sure there is Shatter Mindblank, but you don't want to be required to use that every combat to even get your powers to work.

As far as psion damage powers go I was just pointing out that the Psion HAD to use an 8th lv "spell" to do the same damage that a sorcerer could do with a 5th (cone of cold). Sure the psion gains 3 DC points but the sorcerer could almost make up for that with Spell Focus and Greater Spellfocus that work with every evocation they cast.

I won't deny that the Psion appears stronger than the Sorcerer. The Sorcerer really needs some more tricks to make it stack up. Spontaneous casting as your only real class ability just doesn't equal the unlimited spell knowledge of the wizard or the fact that the wizard gets bonus feats.

 

[Thanee]

Mainly looking for stuff I havn't realized yet, which might tone down the psion in comparison.

I won't deny that the Psion appears stronger than the Sorcerer. The Sorcerer really needs some more tricks to make it stack up. Spontaneous casting as your only real class ability just doesn't equal the unlimited spell knowledge of the wizard or the fact that the wizard gets bonus feats.

Well, I actually think that the spontaneous casting does (roughly) equal the stuff the wizard gets instead.

What I do not think is, that the psion who gets spontaneous "casting" with even more flexibility and all the stuff the wizard gets (except for the unlimited spell knowledge, of course) is balanced to the arcane casters.

For the added flexibility alone he should be a bit worse in comparison not a lot better as it seems to me. And that's without figuring in arcane spell failures and verbal/somatic components, class skills, etc.

The only "balancing factor" could be the powers themselves and how they compare to equal level spells. That doesn't look like it is such a big difference, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[reiella]

For the added flexibility alone he should be a bit worse in comparison not a lot better as it seems to me. And that's without figuring in arcane spell failures and verbal/somatic components, class skills, etc.

The only "balancing factor" could be the powers themselves and how they compare to equal level spells. That doesn't look like it is such a big difference, tho.

Bye
Thanee

For spells, I'd wager that the spells are relatively equal (some are better situationally, some are worse situationally, ie, Psionic Domination is awkward at Concentration duration, Moment of Prescience is a bit odd too). The swift/immediate powers probably need to be contrasted against the swift/immediate in MinisHB...

But the net effect for many of the powers is that the psion doesn't need to take metapsionic feats to diversify his power selection (ie, no need for Elemental Substitution).

Also ya missed Schism, which more or less lets the Psion behave as if they had the 3.0 Haste for power manifestation.

They can't "reselect powers" as other "Spontaneous Spellcasters"; nor do they have an "open spell list" as "prepared spellcasters". They do have access to Psychic Reformation lets you change skills, feats, and powers selected at previous levels [costing 50xp per level you retcon through]. It can be used on others [splitting the xp cost between target and manifester]. I'd probably line these up as 'equal' due to the greater power [and cost] of Psychic Reformation, but the necessity that it be plopped onto your spell list [wizards/sorcs can do the same if you follow the examples in the FRCS with Wish ... hardly a fair cost though ].

Oh on my earlier point about scribe scroll, that was just to show that the Psions do end up "one feat" less (as their psicrystal was turned into a feat option, available at 1st), and they dont' get encode power stone at first.

[ Add ]
Hmm also thinking :
Additon of Psi-like abilities are probably more benefical to Psions than spell-likes are to wizards. For instance, an elan psion gets more use of their PLAs than a gnome illusionist gets out of their SLAs.

 

[Thanee]

Also ya missed Schism, which more or less lets the Psion behave as if they had the 3.0 Haste for power manifestation.

*LOL*

Please tell me they havn't left that one in...

EDIT: Well... at least it is a bit limited with the -6 ML, eh?
Still a huge benefit... basically like Quicken Spell... spontaneously applied... something they prevented very thoroughly for arcane casters to have!

Oh on my earlier point about scribe scroll, that was just to show that the Psions do end up "one feat" less (as their psicrystal was turned into a feat option, available at 1st), and they dont' get encode power stone at first.

kk

Bye
Thanee

 

[Irritating Stick]

What I do not think is, that the psion who gets spontaneous "casting" with even more flexibility and all the stuff the wizard gets (except for the unlimited spell knowledge, of course) is balanced to the arcane casters.

well, that might not necessarily be true about the psion not getting unlimited spell/power knowledge...

on page 64 under the heading of Manifest an Unknown Power from Another's Powers Known, the book talks about manifesting powers from power stones in a way that is different from normal. normally the power would be manifested from the stone and then the stone is used up. the option on this page makes it seem that you could instead manifest the power from a stone as if it was a known power (i.e. using your manifester and your power points). you have to make 3 psicraft checks and a full round action to do this, though.

this gets really wacky with the power Psychic Reformation. after a level up where a psion gets a feat, they could choose Imprint Stone and select Psychic Reformation as a power. they could reformat for some powers that would good to have in a power stone, Imprint the stone, then reformat again to get rid of Imprint Stone and the powers they selected. this takes some XP though

im thinking you could get yourself some nice utility powers by going back about 3 levels, so you would be looking at reformating twice for a total of 300 XP.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Just want to drop in and say that Psions can extend their power list - they can research additional powers, in a process not unlike wizards researching spells. It costs time and XP, though.

 

[Particle_Man]

p. 64 "The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through the research of original powers."

 

[reiella]

Expanded Knowledge, however, kinda works .

And it does take time and experience, in a round about way.

That or he may thinking of the erudite.

 

[Darklone]

Can Psychic warriors take Psistones (familiars) now?

 

[Plane Sailing]

So your 10th level Energy Ball still does 5d6 as a "3rd level power", but the Fireball does 10d6. OTOH the Energy Ball can be scaled to 10d6 with higher DC and a multitude of other benefits. Now at 15th level, the Fireball still does 10d6 and you are able to deal 15d6 with corresponding high DC and many other benefits still, all with the same power.

At the level that someone is casting a 15d6 energy ball he is effectively using an 8th level slot, so the wizard could be casting horrid wilting - same damage and DC but affect up to 15 targets (and no collateral damage) and no energy resistance to reduce the damage.