[XPH] Psion versus Wizard/Sorcerer

[James McMurray]

Dispel Psionics is likely a typo. I fully expect to see the erratta say that the augmentation increases the cap, not the check itself. And if it doesn't say that, I'll be house ruling it. Otherwise for 8 power points at tenth level you get a dispel check of +20.

 

[reiella]

There are two problems with using Power Ball as your archetypal third level Psion power in these comparisions.

1> Its fourth level

2>Its not a Psion Power

3rd level has the fun Energy Cone,
and 4th has the fun Energy Ball.

Both Psion powers, albiet Kineticist it seems.

 

[Thanee]

There are two problems with using Power Ball as your archetypal third level Psion power in these comparisions.

1>Its fourth level
2>Its not a Psion Power

Yeah, you would need to be a Kineticist or use Expanded Knowledge.

Those discipline lists are about the only real disadvantage they built in, which I can see so far, as I wrote somewhere above. They make the selection of powers worse than it looks at first glance (still not THAT weak, but quite a bit below the arcane standard).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nail]

I've had only a little experience with the 3.0e version of the psion, as a fellow player used one. He's a good player, true, but: psions are better than Sorcerers.....possibly even better than clerics. I was hoping the expanded rules leveled the playing field....it seems the field is still tilted in favor of psions.

 

[NilesB]

I wouldn't say the discipline lists are the only way that Psions are weaker than spellcasters. Low level spells remain much more usefull than unaugmented powers, summoned monsters are more flexable than Astral Constructs etc.

Edit:and Nail either your Psion player was cheating or you have only seen Sorcerors who specificly chose the least useful spells they could find.

 

[Thanee]

Dispel Psionics is likely a typo.

Or the designers have very little clue of balance.

I fully expect to see the erratta say that the augmentation increases the cap, not the check itself. And if it doesn't say that, I'll be house ruling it. Otherwise for 8 power points at tenth level you get a dispel check of +20.

Yeah, that might be more reasonable, altho it would still be too good. In any case, if it is better than Dispel Magic / Greater Dispel Magic (which it still is then, because of stepwise scaling and cheaper "Greater Dispels" (only costs a 5th level equivalent (9 PP with Torc / 10 PP w/o)), it's too good. Psions cannot be better at dispelling magic than wizards. No way!

It's ok, that they get both spells in one for the tradeoff to have no ability to counterspell, tho. That seems like a fair deal.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I wouldn't say the discipline lists are the only way that Psions are weaker than spellcasters. Low level spells remain much more usefull than unaugmented powers, summoned monsters are more flexable than Astral Constructs etc.

You do realize, that Astral Constructs are not summoned?

Anyways, yes, of course there are some powers that are weaker than compareable spells (Dominate Person being a very good (and weird - why are psions worse with one of their signature powers?) example), but there are plenty which are better as well, so all in all, that evens out (that is powers are roughly equal in power compared to arcane spells of similar level).

And yes, low level powers are not as useful as low level spells later on, unless you augment them (which in turn costs PP, of course), which makes them a lot more useful instead (and psions have enough PP to augment, really - see above for an example), and they have no caps, too.

The only thing that I see is the selection psions have to choose their powers from, which is definitely worse than the arcane spell list.

Edit:and Nail either your Psion player was cheating or you have only seen Sorcerors who specificly chose the least useful spells they could find.

Yeah, 3.0 PsiHB-only Psions could only outshine other characters by munchkinizing the rules (like Psychofeedback and other horribly broken stuff).

Bye
Thanee

 

[James McMurray]

Yeah, that might be more reasonable, altho it would still be too good. In any case, if it is better than Dispel Magic / Greater Dispel Magic (which it still is then, because of stepwise scaling and cheaper "Greater Dispels" (only costs a 5th level equivalent (9 PP with Torc / 10 PP w/o)), it's too good. Psions cannot be better at dispelling magic than wizards. No way!

Yeah, its definitely cheaper (even without factoring in the underpriced torc). At 11-12th level you need only augment once (total cost 4) to get +11-12. Twice at levels 13-14, etc. But then again, I never really saw anyone using Greater Dispel until around 14th level anyway. Up until then the +1-3 you get to the check isn't really worth the 3 extra spell levels you invested in it.

I think Dispel Psionis is a better setup than the Dispel / Greater Dispel pairing. If I can figure out how to convert it to arcane and divine slot usage I'll probably make a house rule for it.

 

[Thanee]

Spell Points?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Deetz]

what would be the best psionics char to make? kineticist or telepath? i want to be the one who can do the most damage without having to be as physical, but somewhat physical. or would a wizard be better?