D&D 5E Yes, Inspiration

[CapnZapp]

That's probably your best bet.

Though I think my preference would actually be to keep the tie between Inspiration and Advantage, and instead enforce that Inspiration can only be used on actions somehow tied to your Traits, and is gained by accepting a setback (usually something tied to your Flaw). Which I can't claim credit for - I nicked it from the Angry GM.

Thanks.

Edit:

I totally like
1) that the DM isn't responsible for granting you Inspiration; either you're content with the the free Inspiration you get each session (not my decision), or you expose yourself to your flaws to gain more (YOUR decision, not mine)
2) you only get to use inspiration on personal stuff (your flaws or more likely, your traits, bonds or ideals) NOT on any random roll (such as the one you need to nail the princess, kill the dragon or otherwise gain your next powerup...)
3) that any player trying to sweep traits under the rug by coming up with bland past history things (my hometown things, like how I had a sad childhood that somehow does nothing to prevent me from acting like a murderhobo now) is still allowed... but also useless!
4) did I say the player gets to decide? Or rather, did I say I no longer need to be judge and jury as the DM and how cool is that!?

That said, the one thing Angry isn't discussing is mechanics: alternatives to what inspiration actually gives. Options for when you don't like advantage - and specifically how it doesn't stack with the bonus provided by mutitudes of game effects that is also called advantage...

And this is what this thread is for!

 

[CapnZapp]

One interesting thought here: the important seeking of advantage that Inspiration somewhat curtails is mostly a pre-game activity.

When a character build provides you with advantage, it's not due to something you created at the table; it's a foundation you laid before the game and then triggered in game. Generally the situations you can reap advantage in are fairly narrow in scope, to avoid the obliging rules widget from being overpowered.

When inspiration provides you with advantage, it's due to a choice you made about who and what your character is before the game and then triggered in wait I minute I see what I'm doing here.

Now, they're not identical: the tactical trip master character build will always be able to trip (but not so good with a bow), while the inspiration-driven friend of the people is only good against tyrants (but not a peasant mob). It seems to me their areas of excellence are equivalent in size, but there's definitely some table judgment there.
Building a character with an inspiration-engine is a character build choice, a supplement not a replacement. The trip master and the friend of the people can be the same character. It's not an either/or.

That's kind of cool.

I'm cool with handing out candy to inspiring badass roleplaying, and the game is certainly handing out candy to those who master it.

Where I'm not sure I want to go is when I don't get any benefit from my minmaxing because I roleplayed so well or when there's no incentive to roleplay because my system master is already showering me with candy.

In other words, I want inspiration to provide a benefit that is outside of character building and tactical skills; a benefit that stacks with system mastery instead of replacing it or (worse) is rendered superfluous by it.

Everything you said can still be true; nothing you said is really an argument why inspiration needs to provide the exact same stuff that in-game (tactics) and out-of-game (minmaxing builds) already provides.

My thinking is that WotC went with advantage primarily because of KISS.





That, and to play nice to the new kids ("look, my energetic roleplay gave me the same bonus that old neckbeard got in some way I really don't understand yet, but whatevs: cool game!" ;-)

 

[pukunui]

That said, the one thing Angry isn't discussing is mechanics: alternatives to what inspiration actually gives. Options for when you don't like advantage - and specifically how it doesn't stack with the bonus provided by mutitudes of game effects that is also called advantage...

And this is what this thread is for!

Seriously. Check out PF's "Hero Points" mechanic. I was in the exact same boat as you. I gave Angry's FATE-like variant a try but found it was still not working as well as I would've liked, so I looked jaround for other ideas. I decided to go back to the default method of awarding Inspiration but I've adapted PF's Hero Points as additional uses for Inspiration beyond just the granting of advantage.

EDIT: Here's what you can use Inspiration for in my game:
- Act out of turn (as if you had readied an action)
- Gain an extra action
- Petition the DM for an adventure-related hint
- Regain the use of a spent long rest ability
- Cheat death
- Petition the DM to attempt "nearly anything that would normally be impossible", such as attempting to talk down a raging dragon

 

[77IM]

You could just allow inspiration to stack with other advantage (roll 3d20 and take the highest).

 

[aramis erak]

I'm pretty sure that is RAW...

Nope Inspiration has to be declared before rolling, because rolls with advantage are supposed to be roll both at once. (based upon wordings about rerolls, etc, in PHB p.173)

Bardic inspiration is rolled after, but isn't the same thing.

 

[CapnZapp]

Seriously. Check out PF's "Hero Points" mechanic. I was in the exact same boat as you. I gave Angry's FATE-like variant a try but found it was still not working as well as I would've liked, so I looked jaround for other ideas. I decided to go back to the default method of awarding Inspiration but I've adapted PF's Hero Points as additional uses for Inspiration beyond just the granting of advantage.

EDIT: Here's what you can use Inspiration for in my game:
- Act out of turn (as if you had readied an action)
- Gain an extra action
- Petition the DM for an adventure-related hint
- Regain the use of a spent long rest ability
- Cheat death
- Petition the DM to attempt "nearly anything that would normally be impossible", such as attempting to talk down a raging dragon

Thanks, but I feel I need something simple to remember in order to sell it to my players.

Perhaps later on, once they're aboard the general idea.

 

[CapnZapp]

What do you all think about:

"You can immediately move 20 feet without restrictions and you get a +5 bonus to one d20 roll"



The +5 is the same bonus advantage gives to passive checks, and thus "is the same" and still stacks. The movement is because my players love fluid movement in combat. The without restrictions is to enable swashbucklery, and to allow Inspiration to really shine in tough spots.

 

[pukunui]

Thanks, but I feel I need something simple to remember in order to sell it to my players.

Do you mean that you just want a single effect, rather than multiple ones?

Why not just let inspiration work like 4e's action points then? That is, you can use it to take an extra action (which could include taking the Dash action for that extra bit of movement).

What do you all think about:

"You can immediately move 20 feet without restrictions and you get a +5 bonus to one d20 roll"

The +5 is the same bonus advantage gives to passive checks, and thus "is the same" and still stacks. The movement is because my players love fluid movement in combat. The without restrictions is to enable swashbucklery, and to allow Inspiration to really shine in tough spots.

Why only 20 feet? Why not allow them to move their full speed? Or half their speed? I also don't like the flat +5 bonus. Yes, it's the same bonus that advantage gives to passive abilities, but that's because you're *not* rolling when it's passive. I can see what you're trying to do here, but I feel like it doesn't really jive with the rest of 5e. It just doesn't *feel* like a 5e rule, you know? It feels clunky and arbitrary. Why should being inspired *always* grant you extra movement?

 

[CapnZapp]

Do you mean that you just want a single effect, rather than multiple ones?

Yes, a single effect. Something to remember.

If my players later want more diverse options, great - this means I have won them over.

But I don't want to suggest a wall of text or do anything that makes it simpler to just say "let's not bother with Inspiration"...

Why not just let inspiration work like 4e's action points then? That is, you can use it to take an extra action (which could include taking the Dash action for that extra bit of movement).

That's too strong, for my minmaxing players at least.

If Inspiration is that strong, it would encourage players to only use it to nova difficult fights, rather than to think in a "use it or lose it" mentality.

The bonus from Inspiration needs to be desirable enough to not be forgotten about, but it also needs to be not so strong that it decides combats all of its own.

Why only 20 feet? Why not allow them to move their full speed? Or half their speed? I also don't like the flat +5 bonus. Yes, it's the same bonus that advantage gives to passive abilities, but that's because you're *not* rolling when it's passive. I can see what you're trying to do here, but I feel like it doesn't really jive with the rest of 5e. It just doesn't *feel* like a 5e rule, you know? It feels clunky and arbitrary. Why should being inspired *always* grant you extra movement?

First off, thank you for your critical questions, Pukunui. They're great for making me critically evaluate my decisions!

In my experience, the player that always chooses character builds with lots of movement (last time, his character had a Speed of 45) would gain most by Inspiration granting your full speed. I don't want that. I want a level playing field where the slow dwarf in plate mail enjoys the occasional buckling of swashes too!

There are two reasons for me choosing a flat bonus.

One, I personally dislike how a die roll can fall flat on its face (by you rolling a one). I much prefer it when you KNOW you're actually getting something out of your action points, inspirations or whatever. The game already has you roll a d20: more variability is not needed IMO.

Two, it would be too similar to Bardic Inspiration. Sure, if you don't have a Bard in your campaign, I guess you could replace the flat bonus with a +1d10. But I had a Bard in my last campaign, and so I want to think in "bard compatible ways".


Finally, perhaps I wasn't clear. It's *up to* 20 feet of extra movement. Nobody forces you to move at all. So it isn't like you *always* get extra movement...

That said, my players love movement. Last campaign, they got a magic item granting something similar to Misty Step. You could have thought they were fighting over a Sun Blade or a Wish-granting Genie...

 

[pukunui]

Why not just leave it an open-ended effect then? Let your players petition you for an effect. Something along the lines of free movement or a flat bonus or whatever they're minmaxy little minds can think of.

Your proposed solution of bonus movement and a flat bonus to a roll just doesn't feel like it fits the spirit of 5e to me. But then, it's your game, not mine. Only you know what will work for your group. You'll have to ask *them* what they think of your idea, rather than us.