Yet another caster vs. non-caster fix thread

[RUMBLETiGER]

Depends on the Sorcerer. Beguilers are better than Sorcerers who specialize in enchantment and illusion, however, if the Sorcerer is going to go for the nuclear option...

Nah. Shadow spells allow the Beguiler to nuke.

 

[Dandu]

The nuclear option was a metaphor for cherrypicking the most broken spells of each level and putting them together.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

The nuclear option was a metaphor for cherrypicking the most broken spells of each level and putting them together.

Oh. Well then, The Beguiler will need to Dominate the Sorcerer. gotta build to boost those DCs...



Any way to give a Beguiler Enveloping Cocoon?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

They get Use Magic Device as a class skill.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

They get Use Magic Device as a class skill.

A Beguiler UMDing Druid spells? Don't tell anybody about that over here.

 

[Dandu]

Oh. Well then, The Beguiler will need to Dominate the Sorcerer. gotta build to boost those DCs...



Any way to give a Beguiler Enveloping Cocoon?

My mind blanks.

 

[kitcik]

So far I belive I heard three criticisms:
1) The tier system is inaccurate.
2) The points don't work b/c Tier 2 & 3 characters get too many feats.
3) Feats suck so bad that denying feats to casters and giving extra feats to non-casters won't balance things.

On 1, let's ignore that for now, the classes can be re-bucketed later.

On 2, I will work on it - see below.

On 3, if that is so, this system won't work. I admit it readily. I would just be curious to see.

OK (altered items in red):

1) Level advancement works as normal EXCEPT you don't get any automatic feats (i.e. 1st, 3rd, 6th, etc.).
2) Each level you get 20 build points. You can save build points and carry them over to the next level.
3) Levels:
___a) Taking a level in a full caster / Tier 1 class or a PrC that advances casting costs 20 build points.
___b) Taking a level in a Tier 2 class costs 17 points (based on JaronK's tiers for now).
___c) Taking a level in a Tier 3 class costs 12 points.
___d) Taking a level in a lower tier class costs 5 points.
___e) To be clear, this is NOT gestalt and you can only take a level for which you have the appropriate XP.
4) Feats are 5 points each.
5) LA buyoff is 10 points per LA.
6) Build points may also be spent on:
___a) Skills: one point per skill point, no more than 5 spent per level this way, same max ranks as normal.
___b) Ability boosts: 8 per point of increase (not sure if 8 is right - TBD).

 

[Dandu]

The last criticism isn't entirely valid, as you will experience a power surge due to being able to take many if not most of the good feats. It's just that I don't think it will bring about the balance you seek.

 

[kitcik]

Well, I look at it this way:

- denying feats to casters will at least prevent some of the insane broken metamagic (et al) combos.
- dumping large amounts of feats (and/or skills) on non-casters should allow them to excel in multiple areas, like melee combat AND ranged combat AND skill-monkey, or something like that. They could UMD too. They may not be able to break the world, but they can at least feel useful in most situations.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Well, I look at it this way:

- denying feats to casters will at least prevent some of the insane broken metamagic (et al) combos.
- dumping large amounts of feats (and/or skills) on non-casters should allow them to excel in multiple areas, like melee combat AND ranged combat AND skill-monkey, or something like that. They could UMD too. They may not be able to break the world, but they can at least feel useful in most situations.

Tried to xp you.
I agree with the above statements. I'm not sure if the specific steps of your build balance these, but I agree that this would reduce casters and increase non-casters.