Your choices are Kill, or ... Kill

[Mistwell]

This is one of those things that because of my real life experiance as a nurse and dating a firefigter at one time blows my ability to suspend by disbelief. Anything hot enough to make you pass out is going to do some lung damage.

This would be one of those roll my eyes moments.

But it is an easy fix house rule it so it can't do non lethal damage or house rule it so that magical healing is needed to fully recover from it or it takes more time to recover and until you do there is some kind of penalty.

Think of it as instant heat exhaustion. No lung damage, but you might need some fluids before you feel entirely better after waking up.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

It doesn't seem to make the claim, unless "Bloodied" means "Not actually bloodied."

True, but as far as I know, "bloodied" isn't a synonym for "impaled" either. Being bloodied could be as simple as being worn down enough that you're starting to let attacks through, getting cut up a bit (and by cut up a bit, I don't mean 3-inch deep canyons in the character's flesh, either).

 

[Plane Sailing]

I am wondering how you handle it if you don't want to hit them over the head. A non violent way to handle the situation. Like grabblig or disarming? Has any one read how this is going to work.

Intimidate skill to force him to surrender?

Persuade skill to talk him round?

Those are truly nonviolent ways to handle the situation.

 

[Mistwell]

It doesn't seem to make the claim, unless "Bloodied" means "Not actually bloodied."

"Bloodied" is the state of being so roughed up that one is likely to start muttering "Bloody hell".

 

[ruleslawyer]

It doesn't seem to make the claim, unless "Bloodied" means "Not actually bloodied."

I was referring to the discussion abovethread. However, in general, "bloodied" having to mean "has suffered serious, permanent physical damage" is a lot less convincing to me as a factor in determining the nature of hp than the fact that PCs can recover with healing surges and regain all hp lost in a day.

 

[Deep Blue 9000]

It is more reasonable to say "I like what I've seen so far" than to say "I don't like what I haven't seen so far."

Certainly, some people are saying "I don't like what I've seen so far," and there's nothing wrong with that.

And some people are saying "I like what I haven't see so far." The two sides of the argument are perfectly symmetric. Every time someone says they like 4e, they are assuming just as much as the OP.

You are holding the anti 4e crowd to a high burden of proof than the pro 4e crowd.

 

[Darth Cyric]

And some people are saying "I like what I haven't see so far."

Examples? Because I haven't seen this happen.

All the pro-4e sentiment I've seen is reactionary to the news as it comes out, and then, at best, hopeful speculation beyond this.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Also, I've usually heard the term "bloodied" used in reference to unarmed (nonlethal) combat, like boxing or schoolyard fighting.

 

[Darth Cyric]

This would be one way of doing it, and if 4e takes the abstractness seriously and builds from it, it is what they might do. But if they have (for instance) whips which can only do non lethal damage at any point in the fight (as opposed to being unable to deliver a killing blow and even that I'm sketchy on) as in 3e, there is a disconnect.

Or make it so damage is damage, until the killing/knockout blow. Whips and unarmed strikes (without Improved Unarmed Strike, assuming that feat exists in some form) can only deliver knockout blows, not killing blows.

 

[Darth Cyric]

Or not. Did you skip the point at which it was suggested that 4e is making it explicit that all damage delivered right up to the killing blow is effectively just "wearing the enemy down," not actually inflicting permanent physical damage?

So it's not stabbing the enemy four times and then slapping him across the face; it's hacking away at the enemy until he's wearied and his defenses are down, and then either delivering a killing blow or knocking him out. Much more "simulative" of D&D's genre inspirations than the other way.

On that note, I wonder if we're going to have powers like SWSE's Severing Strike.