Your Thoughts on the Matrix Revolutions?

[Zappo]

The movie was spectacular, there is no doubt about it. The scenery was great, and the special effects were tasteful.

Much like Reloaded, though, its merits end there as far as I'm concerned... the plot of the first Matrix had originality and a certain intelligence, even if it was plagues by some gaping plot holes (why humans and not cows?). The original Matrix also had several good one-liners that I can throw into a conversation for a quick laugh.

The second and third movie maintain the high quality action and effects, and worsen all the rest. The dialogue is pompose, not witty: lots of talking in circles and self-referencing, but little actual information. The acting is generally bad (I half-joked that they had to cover Keanu Reeves' eyes so that he could put up a decent performance in the scene where

Spoiler

Trinity dies

).

The worst job of all is done with the plot, though. Neither Reloaded nor Revolutions do anything to plug the problems of the original Matrix - in fact, they create even larger holes. I don't care about the shirts of the people in Zion; I could even tolerate them not knowing how to replicate the technology they used. But the fact is that the entire trilogy hings on absurdities and contradictions.

Spoiler

How is it possible that their most powerful weapon, the EMP, is not ready for use at all times in Zion? Why did the agents want the access codes to Zion's mainframe in the first movie? Why do 5 sentinels almost destroy the ship in the first movie, when a horde of them can't even stop one in Revolutions? How is Neo's connection to the machines maintained without any kind of transmitting hardware? Why would such a connection allow him to remotely blow them up? Why does he have to fight Seraph in Reloaded and not in any of the other two? Why humans and not cows? How could the operator overseeing Bane before he got assimilated not notice that something strange was happening? What's the whole point, seeing that the situation at the end of Revolutions is almost exactly the same one as it is at the beginning of The Matrix? Even the peace won't last long, since the videogame set after the third movie will have to have some kind of conflict. Why would the machines even bother to use sentinels to destroy Zion when a nuke would be more reliable and faster? Especially considering that the humans could have won that battle easily even without the need for Neo, if only they had the freakin' EMP. So what if it disables the other defenses, seeing how effective it is, you don't need any other defense. How did the Oracle's precognition work? Where were the twins when the Merovingian needed them?

And that's just the stuff I can think off the top of my head. Naturally, I could invent several justifications for all of that, but that's not the point. Whatever excuse I can invent, it wasn't in the movie, and leaving explanations out is something you can only do for obvious or irrelevant issues, not for stuff that is the basis of the plot.

I have a very high tolerance for inconsistencies in sci-fi/action flicks, but with these last two Matrix episodes I am finding troubles holding up my suspension of disbelief, heavily attacked every five minutes or so. Good thing the scenery and effects are spectacular enough to distract me.

Overall, among "mindless action/scifi" movies (a genre I love, btw) I rank it at 8/10, but among intellectual/sci-fi, well, I think it hardly qualifies.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Spoiler

How is it possible that their most powerful weapon, the EMP, is not ready for use at all times in Zion?

EMPs also damage THIER equipment, and then they'd be left with MORE machines to attack them without any way to defend.

Spoiler

Why did the agents want the access codes to Zion's mainframe in the first movie?

To ruin the systems keeping the people alive? Not really sure on that one...

Spoiler

Why do 5 sentinels almost destroy the ship in the first movie, when a horde of them can't even stop one in Revolutions?

Well, for one, the Neb didn't have extra crew members to man any kind of weapons. Also, they weren't going anywhere, just sitting on the ground. And last...the Hammer just looks a lot more like a fighting ship to me.

Spoiler

How is Neo's connection to the machines maintained without any kind of transmitting hardware? Why would such a connection allow him to remotely blow them up?

They DID say that the One has a connection to the Source. Neo basically used this connection to destroy the Sentinels via the control of the Source. Beyond that...who knows, its left to be a mysterious thing to show his power.

Spoiler

What's the whole point, seeing that the situation at the end of Revolutions is almost exactly the same one as it is at the beginning of The Matrix? Even the peace won't last long, since the videogame set after the third movie will have to have some kind of conflict.

The movies, at least, seem to hint that the peace will EVENTUALLY end but not any time soon. So I assume that the machines and humans will actually work together.

Spoiler

Where were the twins when the Merovingian needed them?

The more I think about that one, the more I'm starting to think they may have actually been destroyed in that explosion...

Whatever excuse I can invent, it wasn't in the movie, and leaving explanations out is something you can only do for obvious or irrelevant issues, not for stuff that is the basis of the plot.

Well, consider that the plot of the movies are HEAVY into religion, and point me to a part of the Bible that tells me EXACTLY how some of the things that happened...happened. The Matrix movies seem to be another Messiah style story, and they take it to the point where you are FORCED to think about things and draw your own conclusions in places that most movies wouldn't. Personally, I like that.

 

[Tsyr]

To ruin the systems keeping the people alive? Not really sure on that one...

My take on that is that it was mostly Smith who was after the codes, not the Machines as a whole... Smith has, from the first movie, been the only program that actually seems to hate humanity. The Architect is annoyed by it, the Merovingian thinks its silly, what have you, but the only one that hates it like Smith does is Smith. It was really only Smith pushing for the codes in the first movie, not the other ones, and when Smith was "deleted", or so they thought, they were all too willing to extract themselves from that situation. I think Smith might have been... non-standard even then, from his desire for the codes, to his hatred, to his... cruelty... etc.

 

[Zappo]

EMPs also damage THIER equipment, and then they'd be left with MORE machines to attack them without any way to defend.

You don't have to only use one EMP. From what seen in Revolutions, the machines attacked in large waves, but one EMP could take out an entire wave in one shot. It could be argued that the first EMP fired would damage the others - but there are several easy ways around this, such as hiding the second and successive EMPs beyond range. Besides, they could have EMP-trapped the entire path from the surface to Zion.

To ruin the systems keeping the people alive? Not really sure on that one...

How? You can't hack into anything unless you actually have a physical connection to it, passwords or no passwords. I don't think there's a big cable from surface to Zion, and radio communications don't seem to be easy either. Besides, even if they got the codes from Morpheus, all Zion had to do was to change them.

Well, for one, the Neb didn't have extra crew members to man any kind of weapons. Also, they weren't going anywhere, just sitting on the ground.

Considering the squid carnage that the Hammer dealt, I reckon a single gunman could have taken care of 5 of them. The crew could have even attacked them with the electro guns when they breached the hull; they seemed to work fine in Zion. Maybe it would have worked, maybe not, but the crew didn't do anything at all except waiting for Neo to wake up, and that doesn't make sense.

And last...the Hammer just looks a lot more like a fighting ship to me.

Me too. Still, it's incredible that the Neb didn't have a single turret, and that noone used the electrogun.

They DID say that the One has a connection to the Source. Neo basically used this connection to destroy the Sentinels via the control of the Source. Beyond that...who knows, its left to be a mysterious thing to show his power.

A connection needs a device to run on. No device means that something psionic/supernatural is going on in reality. That doesn't really fit the tone IMO. Or, there is another explanation that we weren't given (hidden device in Neo's implants?), but since we weren't given it, it doesn't count.

The movies, at least, seem to hint that the peace will EVENTUALLY end but not any time soon. So I assume that the machines and humans will actually work together.

I'm curious to see what the Matrix videogame will pull out about this.

The more I think about that one, the more I'm starting to think they may have actually been destroyed in that explosion...

Possible, but it wasn't clear. They are just secondary characters, no point in making us wonder whether they are alive or not.

Well, consider that the plot of the movies are HEAVY into religion, and point me to a part of the Bible that tells me EXACTLY how some of the things that happened...happened. The Matrix movies seem to be another Messiah style story, and they take it to the point where you are FORCED to think about things and draw your own conclusions in places that most movies wouldn't. Personally, I like that.

Symbolism in movies is great, and there is some of that in the Matrix trilogy. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things that just don't make sense at any level, and even more unfortunately, some of these things are about the very foundations of the plot.

 

[Wolf72]

well if most (oops, ALL) the EMP's were based on the hovercrafts ... and bane/smith ruined that, at least I can accept that they had no others ...

Spoiler

heck if they had even 3 ships in dock ... that's 3 waves they could have knocked out before having to deal with them the way they did.

... the architect (the oracle seemed to think of him as sort of boob though)seemed fairly confident that the machines would simply win this battle though.

I wonder how long the battle would have lasted if the fleet hadn't been wiped out. Especially since the Hovercrafts were almost immune to the EMP's as long as they were shut down ...

shut down, fire it, ... start 'er up, recharge ... repeat process.

 

[Stormfalcon]

I haven't seen the movie yet (probably not until sometime next week), but one thing should be noted. Ankh (if the abbreviation isn't minded) wasn't talking about the EMPs disabling themselves. He was talking about EMPs disabling all of the other equipment that Zion was using. That means the mechs, the hovercraft, any other EMP devices, their own computers...anything that was electronic by nature. Hence, Zion would be completely defenseless as another wave of squiddies would be sent by the machines.

In fact, if humanity in our world were to engage in a nuclear war, one of the earliest tactics to be used would be to explode warheads at high altitude (about a mile up or so) in order to generate EMPs for the purpose of disabling the enemy. Vehicles would stop running, electronics would be fried, all sorts of fun would be had before the other warheads hit their own targets.

 

[drnuncheon]

A couple of clarifications that nobody's brought up yet. Both IMO, natch.

Spoiler

Q: Why was Neo able to blow up machines with his mind?
A: Notice that all the ones he blows up are the 'sentinel bombs' that we saw in Reloaded. He doesn't blow up any actual Sentinels, just shuts them down. He doesn't have 'psychic explodo power', just the ability to control their code and tell them to explode prematurely.

Q: What happened to the humans left in the Matrix?
A: What humans? Watch the final fight. Near as I can tell, they're all Smith. The ones in Zion may well be the only ones left. That would fit with the Christian imagery, too - only those 'saved' survive.

 

[Remathilis]

A couple of clarifications that nobody's brought up yet. Both IMO, natch.

Spoiler

Q: Why was Neo able to blow up machines with his mind?
A: Notice that all the ones he blows up are the 'sentinel bombs' that we saw in Reloaded. He doesn't blow up any actual Sentinels, just shuts them down. He doesn't have 'psychic explodo power', just the ability to control their code and tell them to explode prematurely.

Q: What happened to the humans left in the Matrix?
A: What humans? Watch the final fight. Near as I can tell, they're all Smith. The ones in Zion may well be the only ones left. That would fit with the Christian imagery, too - only those 'saved' survive.

OOH My turn with spoiler quotes.

Spoiler

There are humans in the matrix, they awaken after smith is destroyed, having been cleansed of him. (Witness the exile girl and oracle.) They are there, still asleep and awaiting disconnection.

 

[s/LaSH]

Why did they need codes for Zion? Here's what I think: Remember those giant doors? Remember when

Spoiler

Zion Command almost didn't let the Hammer in because it wasn't broadcasting

? Trojan Horse tactics. Send in one hovercraft loaded with Sentinels, dock, kill everyone, cripple defences. If you don't have access codes, they don't let you through the big giant doors, maybe they open gun ports in the walls and blow the crap out of you, I don't know.

I still maintain that certain characters had psychic (or miraculous) powers, pure and simple. What did Neo see in the train station? A reminder:

Spoiler

It was his last journey on the Logos.

How would comprehension of computer code help him see that? It wouldn't, and you can't tell me it could. He's obviously got something else.

All this talk of messianic tones reminds me of a conclusion I came to, however.

Spoiler

There's a Christ-like figure in the film, all right, but it ain't Neo. It's the Oracle, and it fits on just about every level. Neo just pulls an Arthur, which is a distinctly second-rate death.

I think the Oracle's demonstrated a profound spirituality, which says some interesting things about the machines...

And someone please remind me: What was the sign above the Oracle's kitchen door? I didn't catch that, and I think it could be important.

 

[Starman]

And someone please remind me: What was the sign above the Oracle's kitchen door? I didn't catch that, and I think it could be important.

Know thyself.

Starman