Your Thoughts on the Matrix Revolutions?

[Chain Lightning]

WARNING - - - SOME MINOR SPOILERS MAY BE CONCLUDED FROM READING MY THOUGHTS ON CERTAIN SCENES.
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Originally Posted by ASH

I think that some people really do expect too much from a movie. Its a movie. Did it entertain you..yes or no...
If not than thats great but it did me, and a lot of other people too!

But to each their own.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

And before I saw the movie, I was one of THOSE people...I wanted to have all the answers handed to me on a plate, and for this movie to somehow cure cancer and bring peace to the world.

But when I walked out, all I could say to myself was "That was fun!"

And I couldn't be happier.

-Rugger
"I Revolution!"

I disagree. I don't think art should be so simple. I don't think many things should be so simple. I don't think it should be "Yes" or "No". Its like having a scientist rate the temperatures with just "Hot" or "Cold". There's a reason for degrees. Because its more accurate and close to measuring things.

I can't say , "Yes" and be 100% truthfully communicating what I feel. Its more like "Yes....but barely." That's totally different from "Yes! Absolutely awesome!"

And before I saw the movie, I was one of THOSE people...I wanted to have all the answers handed to me on a plate, and for this movie to somehow cure cancer and bring peace to the world.

I didn't expect that ever of any movie. I know you're exaggerating...but really. At its core, I want to be entertained...that's true. But we discuss here, the different levels of achievement in these goals.

And I in particular never said I didn't like the movie because there were certain things unexplained. I scored it low because of a many variety of reasons. Bad dialogue, bad editing/or storyboarding, script's inability to provoke appropriate emotional response that a trilogy's ending should have.....etc, etc.

There are parts of a story that you allow to remian mysterious because its the charm of the story. A writer knows when and what to leave mysterious. Let's take the original Star Wars trilogy for example. They introduce bits that they never explain or show. Like 'the Clone Wars'. They never show it in episodes 4-6. They never explain Boba Fett's past. And if episodes 1-3 never ever came out, we'd still be fine with it.

But imagine certain things that ought to have a resolution of some sort....being totally not addressed. I rather have some very important things resolved, even in a way I DON'T understand , rather than not get resolved at all. David Lynch films are good examples of this. Even his weird films, that twist and make your brain quiver in confusion....there's a still a resolution. It may take you years of discussing it late night in coffee houses to disect it...but its there. You saw and recognized it the first time you saw the movie, even if you didn't understand it till years later. Or not at all...just the hint of meaning being slightly out of your grasp. Like maybe some part of Pink Floyd the Wall. Or the ending to Casablanca. Now THAT'S the type of 'leaving it a mystery'
I enjoy. Not, the 'I'm a bad writer and I totally forgot to address this, but it doesn't matter because fanboys are now thinking I did it on purpose and that I'm a genius' type of 'leaving it a mystery'.

Now here's the trick. Being able to see which one is which.

In Matrix:Reloaded, Neo starts to develop a little of 'the vision'......which we assume is much in the same vision/ability the Oracle has. He dreams of Trinity's impending doom. He doesn't know why he's having these dreams until he meets the Oracle and she explains to him (and the audience), that "he now has the vision". Where does this go?

In Matrix:Revolutions, this vision is never brought up, used, expanded on, or anything. Oh...and please don't disgust me by retorting with "the vision is a part of his vision to see the machine world that he develops and also the ability to enter without being jacked in....."

The vision mentioned in Matrix:Reloaded is plainly the ability to see into the future. Which is never explained how a computer can have clairvoyance. But THAT PART , I don't mind. We are left to assume they use a complex mathematical probability process that is so complex and layered...its much like fortune telling. Us filling in THAT blank is cool. What's not cool, is the introduction of this ability only to facilitate a plot device the brothers thought would be cool. That being...bookending Reloaded with the doom of Trinity and how it is a major cloud over Neo's journey through that middle story. And they are right, that IS a cool plot device. However, to make it work, they came up with an explanation which tags Neo with this ability, but since it was only brought up to facilitate the plot device in the second movie....it doesn't appear at all in the third. In doing that....you've created a 'hole'. A mistake, a flaw in the story.

Imagine watching Empires Strikes Back and listening to the line, "no...there is another....."

Then in Jedi....they never reveal who the other is. Leia isn't revealed as his sister or anything. Darth doesn't find out either. She just romantically ends up with Solo at the end. And nothing is ever done to resolve this 'bomb' Yoda threw out in Empire.

Another thing. It's just not holes like Neo's growing Oracle like vision/ability. Its how things were shot too.

I don't mind not knowing FOR SURE what exactly becomes of the human and machine race at the end. I don't need the Matrix equivelant of the Ewok Celebration to be satisfied. You are wrong in assuming that is what we (who were let down a bit) were after. I was fine with the resolution, I just wasn't fine with how it was shot. No emotional impact for me whatsoever. How odd considering how easy I go on movies. I'm usually the one that comes to friends and say "come on guys, lighten up....you're being too nit picky". But those last few shots were bad. That still shot of the city with sherbert icecream colored sunrise coming up over city....ugh. Where's the majesty? Where's the famed impressive visuals that the Matrix makers boast? What? No vitual crane shot slowly rising above the city and seeing the city stretch on the the horizon? Just that static shot? C'mon guys.......do something awe and breathtaking with this last shot......something....

 

[Kai Lord]

The vision mentioned in Matrix:Reloaded is plainly the ability to see into the future...they came up with an explanation which tags Neo with this ability, but since it was only brought up to facilitate the plot device in the second movie....it doesn't appear at all in the third.

Spoiler

Actually it does. In Revolutions Neo has a vision of his future flight to the Machine City, which is pretty major considering its what gives him the idea to go there in the first place and results in the end of the war.

 

[drnuncheon]

OOH My turn with spoiler quotes.

Spoiler

There are humans in the matrix, they awaken after smith is destroyed, having been cleansed of him. (Witness the exile girl and oracle.) They are there, still asleep and awaiting disconnection.

Spoiler

Well, the two you mention don't really tell us anything about the humans, since they are both programs! After the 'reboot' we see: a cat (presumably a program), the Last Exile (program), the Oracle (program), and the Architect (program). No humans. A remarkable absence of humans, in fact.

 

[drnuncheon]

Spoiler

Actually it does. In Revolutions Neo has a vision of his future flight to the Machine City, which is pretty major considering its what gives him the idea to go there in the first place and results in the end of the war.

Some more things to consider:

Spoiler

"The Eyes of the Oracle can only be given, not taken." Smith takes them - and suffers false visions for it. (Or, rather, he recognizes that he can't see past a choice he doesn't understand - in this case, Neo's choice to continue fighting). Neo is given them, and sees the truth (because he knows himself, and therefore understands his choice?)

Neo's blinding is also important - many mythical seers were blind or blinded so that they could see things other than this world.

It would be interesting to look for other things that led up to that that. I suspect that the Bros. W put in more foreshadowing than we suspect - look at some of the stuff that was only really realized after Reloaded was on DVD, like the car license plates in the Freeway chase.

J

 

[Viking Bastard]

Whoah. That's a lot of blackness.

Anyway, I don't know how good Revolutions is as an independant
movie. But as the final chapter of a 6+ hour movie, it's breathtaking
and very satisfying. Last night, I saw all three movies back-to-back
and it really felt like one big movie. It didn't feel like the original
Star Wars trilogy or the TOS movie trilogy. It didn't feel like a series
of interconnected movies, but as a one big whole. All the pacing issues
I had with Reloaded when it first came out weren't there anymore. As
a middle part of a movie, it didn't feel like it was slow, but as if the
film was simply taking a breather.

The Matrix Megamovie gets 8.5 of 10. Very Good.

The Matrix Revolutions needs another viewing to grade. I'll be seeing
it with my dad sometime this week. Expect some more comments then.

 

[Chain Lightning]

Spoiler

Actually it does. In Revolutions Neo has a vision of his future flight to the Machine City, which is pretty major considering its what gives him the idea to go there in the first place and results in the end of the war.

Please point out this scene for me. I do not recall it.

Spoiler

I know he has a quick glimpse when meditating in that limbo train station of a the three power coils leading to the machine city, but that's all I remember. I didn't interpret that as using the same ability to see the future. I thought that was him just sensing like 'the heart beat' or 'power' of the source. And thus his ability to get a glimpse of the power lines for a brief moment. As if as he is sitting there...the camera passes over the power lines showing them at that moment, not into the future. But it is possible that glimpse is a part of him seeing into the future ....seeing the brief part of the future journey Trinity and he will take. That would indeed qualify as using it in the third movie. Still, it would seem too little for my tastes, just that one glimpse. Even if 'the vision' was dealt with more to my satisfaction in Revolutions....I still have a large list of other things that I thought brought the experience down to a lower score.

But interesting....was that the scene you meant Kai Lord? Or was there another one? I freely admit that I am quite capable of having a brain fart once in a while. Could've happened during the watching of this movie. Heh heh.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

http://www.matrix-explained.com/index.php

Spoilers and all.

Natch.

Eh...reading that just shows me people expected waaaay too much from this movie...

 

[theburningman]

I still don't know if I liked this movie or not. Since it is taking me so long to make up my mind, I'm thinking it's probably going to wind up being 'not'.

It just didn't satisfy me. I'm usually the one telling my wife that I liked a movie that she didn't like because "a perfect, happy ending" just wouldn't be good enough, but I have this nagging feeling of being let down and disappointed by this movie. And I liked Reloaded.

It irritates me because, like many others, I feel like there are a lot of points (especially from Reloaded) left unaddressed and dangling. Just see any of the above dissatisfied reviews. And no matter how many of the rationalizations I read among the posts above, the feelings of irritation and dissatisfaction don't fade.

And no matter what anyone says, it's not enough that this movie had amazing action sequences (I, too, was awed by the battle for Zion, until I began thinking about how easy it seemed to be to kill squidies now, and the flying effects in the Neo/Smith final battle were very cool, but the whole fight just seemed to lack the emotion and urgency that its parallel in the first movie had) and that it was entertaining. I did find it entertaining while I was watching it, but the reason everyone kept talking about The Matrix long after the neatness of the special effects wore off was because of the literary, religious, and philosophical allusions that peppered the first one and added depth to it. Not because it was just 'entertaining'.

It makes me sad that I feel like this movie took some of the most brilliantly realized (if not exactly original) concepts that have ever appeared on the screen, and just left me wishing that I had never seen anything besides the original Matrix.

(I'm not worried about Return of the King, since I already know the ending, but please, God, I'm begging that Episode III will be a better payoff than this.)

 

[theburningman]

Eh...reading that just shows me people expected waaaay too much from this movie...

Maybe so, and there is definitely some stupid shte on that site, but let me just point to a couple of examples of the kind of things that bothered me. Some of these have already been mentioned, but bear with me.

In Reloaded, Neo and Co. go to see the Merovingian. The directors deliberately show Neo watching a man leave, then mention no more of it. Fine, I'll wait until Revolutions to see what's going on. Well, the man in question turns out to be a very nice and polite program who is trying to get his daughter somewhere. Where isn't clear to me, but it seems to be to other people. Okay, that's fine, but what isn't fine is that I don't understand why the entire scene with Neo and those programs takes place. It doesn't seem to advance the plot to me. I'm left feeling extraordinarily dense, which is not a feeling I'm used to.

Also in Reloaded, Persephone demands a kiss from Neo in exchange for her help. There is an extreme close-up and the whirring Matrix sound effect. What just happened? It must have been important for it to be focused on so specifically. Is it ever explained? No. Watch all the bright bullets shooting all the scary squidies, and forget it ever happened.

I don't know, maybe the problem is the Wachowskis just put too much into these three movies for just three movies. Maybe they should have done a Matrix television series instead.

 

[Kai Lord]

But interesting....was that the scene you meant Kai Lord?

Spoiler

There was that glimpse, but there's was also the larger version of that vision when he's collecting his thoughts in solitude on the Hammer. He tells everyone he needs some time, goes and meditates in a chamber and has an extended vision where the camera is panning at high speed over the surface of the earth and centers on the Machine City.

He then gets up and goes down to the others and says, "Now I know where I have to go." This is right after the Oracle tells him he'll be able to see into the future but no farther than the choices he doesn't understand.

I thought it was really cool how they did that.